few questions about my NEW notch.

[biggyfan1]

Well im back in the game with a 1989 notchback. The car is an auto and that brings me to my first question. When i give it WOT it always changes gears @ 3900rmp the only way i can make it change gears after 3900 is to manuly shift.

Also the guy "said" he just installed an E303 cam and after he installed it the rocker arms or hydr lifters are making lots of clattering. Being that i once owned a 5.0 and i know how it should sound i can say that it is very loud. what can i do about that?

 

[91foxbod50]

Is it coming from the valve covers? You can pull the valve covers off and inspect. Every time I pick up a new car one of the first things I do is pull the plugs and inspect them to make sure the car is running right. I've had a few times where I'd pull the plugs and have signs of worn valve guides. If I were in your shoes I'd start with the plugs and then work my way to the valve covers.

 

[VibrantRedGT]

If you're going to keep the AOD invest in a twEECer. It hooks to your ECC and you can tune the car. However there is an Automatic section where you program what RPM to change gears. Plus you can make the automatic shift harder by changing pressure parameters.

I'd take the valve covers off and adjust each rocker at least twice. If you don't know how get a Haynes Manual and learn. Id also change the plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter, etc.

 

[Boydster]

If you're going to keep the AOD invest in a twEECer. It hooks to your ECC and you can tune the car. However there is an Automatic section where you program what RPM to change gears. Plus you can make the automatic shift harder by changing pressure parameters.

You can only do this with the '92 and later AODE, right? The '89 has the regular AOD that uses mechanicals and hyd pressure to shift... no connection to the EEC, no solenoids...

 

[biggyfan1]

ok so i opened up a valve cover and got one of the valves to close and once i did i checked to see how much play i had and it seem very sloppy to me. here is a video of the play it has.

 

[91foxbod50]

Did you check the rest of them? It looks like you found where the noise is coming from. Find out about the torque specs and go over them.

 

[biggyfan1]

well i didnt get to check the other ones yet im to tired. But i dont think the torque specs have much to do with how loose it is. I made sure they were tight and they were. I might just need some adjustable rockers so i can get back to zero lash. now the question is why am i not at zero, what made it so damn loose?

 

[91foxbod50]

It's possible that someone had previously done work to the top end. And didn't properly torque the rockers. There is a lot of vibration going through them and if it wasn't properly adjusted it could have vibrated itself loose. The only way you can tell is by correctly adjusting each one and then checking backlash. Did you ever check the plugs like we mentioned? Look at them an inspect for oil. If they are wet then that is a sign of a worn valve guide. In that case it would also cause excessive vibration.

 

[biggyfan1]

plugs on one side looked normal. also if my quides were bad wouldnt my car burn oil and smoke? i can rev it and no smoke at all comes out.

 

[biggyfan1]

so what can i do to get an adjustment? i see some comp cam adjustable roler rockers that let you adjusts the pushrod seats. They are like 500 bux my god. i can get a new set of GT40s for that. what can i do?

 

[Stever89]

Can't you just tighten them (while it's running) till the tap goes away? I don't know if something's changed, but that's what we used to do, go clockwise on the rocker stud nut till the tap was gone, then go 1/4 turn more.

 

[Boydster]

Dude... you have a 1989 HO 5.0 engine. The rocker arms are pedestal mount, bolted down, torqued to the head. When one is coming loose like that video, something is broken or coming apart.

These are not rockers that can be set by feel, by a certain gap to the top of the valve, by tightening till the noise goes away and give it another 1/4 turn, or by feeler gauge. When properly torqued with everything in good condition, there will be no slop or play. The torque on the bolt sets the preload on the lifter.

Dont go buying adjustable rockers and such... why would you do that when you only have 1 rocker that is messed up? If you have 1 bent axle would you go buy 4 new hot drag wheels to fix the problem? What if the problem wasn't a bent axle but just a loose wheel?

Research how to set the rockers. Let me help ya some... You have to have the cylinder on TDC of the compression stroke so both valves are closed. The rocker bolt is then finger tightened to zero lash (yes, 1/16 of a turn will make a difference), then torque the rocker bolt to 20 ft lbs. The bolt should reach this torque in about 1/4 to 1 full turn. If it has to be turned too far, there are shims that can be installed under the pedestal.

Now... something on yours is obviously messed up. Check for a collapsed lifter, bent pushrod, stuck valve, broken valvespring. If all those things look good, try setting it up to TDC and torquing it, see how it comes up.

 

[jrichker]

Michael Yount’s valve adjustment procedure

Here's an easy way to determine this. Start with the #1 cylinder. Rotate the engine with a ratchet on the crank bolt clockwise. Watch the #1 pushrods. First the exhaust pushrod will rise and fall signaling what would be the exhaust valve opening and closing if the rocker were on. As it closes the intake pushrod will rise -- keep rotating clockwise until the intake pushrod falls and is level with the exhaust pushrod - both at the same height. Both lifters are now on the base circle of the cam - both valves would be closed if the rockers were on.

Now, install both rockers. Tighten the bolts with one hand while rocking the rocker with the other hand - continue until you reach the point where you can't 'rock' the rocker any more because there's no gap on the valve stem end or the pushrod end. You are at zero lash - i.e. - no gaps. Stop tightening just as you reach this point.

Now, put your torque wrench on the bolt and tighten it to 18-20 ft-lbs while counting the number of turns it takes to reach the torque. You should hit the torque within 1/4 to 1 turn of the bolt. If it takes more than 1 turn, use a shim to raise the rocker -- each .030" shim will reduce the number of turns to torque by about 1/4 turn. If you reach the torque in less than a 1/4 turn, or you have trouble reaching zero lash even at full torque, then you'll either need longer pushrods, or to CAREFULLY remove some material from the bottom of the rocker fulcrum. Using the procedure described above, you will work through the remaining 7 pairs of rockers. If you follow the firing order, it will minimize the manual cranking you have to do to get the lifters on the base circle of the cam prior to installation of the next pair.

When I first went through mine, 13 of them took no shims; 3 of them took 1 .030" shim. Upon cranking it up, one or two of them sounded a bit noisier than I thought was right, so with the engine hot, I pulled the upper off, and the valve covers, and went through the installation procedure again. That time, 11 of them took no shims; 4 of them took one .030", and one of them took 1 .060" shim. And they were very quiet running.

Good luck with it.
__________________
Michael Yount - K'ville,TN 82 Volvo 242w/5.0L; 2000 Suzuki Bandit 1200

 

[biggyfan1]

Wouldn't adding shims make it even further from the push rod and the tip of the valve stem? To my understanding the rocker is bolted right to the head and the shim would go between the rocker and head making the rocker further out of adjustment. I'm leaning tords a few bad lifters or a few bent push rods.

 

[Boydster]

Wouldn't adding shims make it even further from the push rod and the tip of the valve stem? To my understanding the rocker is bolted right to the head and the shim would go between the rocker and head making the rocker further out of adjustment. I'm leaning tords a few bad lifters or a few bent push rods.

If it takes more than 1 turn from zero lash to reach the torque, you're putting too much preload on the lifter. Placing a shim (.030 or .060) under the rocker pedestal allows the bolt to reach the torque sooner, keeping the preload on the lifter within spec.

The rocker in that video either came loose or something has broken. You can pull the pushrods with just the valve covers off, but will need to pull the lower intake to get to the lifters.

As you disassemble, make sure to keep track of everything and keep it all associated with where it came from. I went to the Dollar Store and bought a bunch of plastic food buckets with lids for less than $7. Each rocker with its pedestal, pushrod, fulcrum, bolt.... everything... went into its own bucket and each was labeled on top. Oh, and keep track of the tops and bottoms of the pushrods.

Let us know what ya find!

 

[Boydster]

Oh, and by the way... if reaching the torque requires less than 1/4 turn... you can flat-sand the bottom of the pedestal a small amount, or get shorter pushrods. But if thats the case, especially with all stock equipment, something is way wrong.

 

[biggyfan1]

heres a little update. plugs pulled and look good, oil pressure checked in @ 52lbs at idle. normal is 40-60. checked the torque on all rockers and ALL were tighter then 20lbs. Nothing is broken!!!!!! I was watching a video from a dude who knows his sh% and when he cant get the right adjustment he says to get longer push rods. here is the video. fast forward to 4.30 sec and thats when he talks about it.

 

[txstang84]

Did you pull the pushrod out and see if it was bent?

 

[txstang84]

Man, that's actually a pretty decent video-good info for people who've never put an engine together, or need good explanation as to how things go together.

 

[biggyfan1]

i didnt pull the rods out because i have 5 or 6 rods that are real loose. If it was just 1 rocker making noise i would think it was bent, but 5 or 6 being bent naaaa. my car sounds like an F350. some of you guys talk about shims, i would only need shims if i was having to much pre load on my springs. as you can see in my video i cant even get to zero lash and by putting shims it would put me even further from zero