NikwoaC's "Commitment Issues" Engine Build

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by NIKwoaC, Mar 13, 2011.


  1. Boosted92LX

    Boosted92LX Mustang Master

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    Just tack weld the nuts on it, Nik. Then they'll never come loose unless you want it to. That's how it's done in big industrial equipment. No worries then.
     
    #321
  2. 1991notchbackLX

    1991notchbackLX Active Member

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    Congrats on buttoning it up, Nik. Nice work man! :nice:
     
    #322
  3. FastDriver

    FastDriver Mod Dude

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    If you're going to play around with the tune yourself, then get a wideband, Nik. There is no better tuning investment in the world. Innovate has have good products.

    If you're reading plugs, then shut the engine off at WOT. Don't give the car a chance to clean them off at light load or idle before pulling them. Literally, shut off the car at WOT, or immediately afterwards, and pull the plugs on the side of the road. Otherwise, you're not getting an accurate reading. Also, I would not drive the car another second without welding the nuts as has been mentioned by others... you're playing with fire.

    The quarterhorse is probably your best bet for a piggyback tuning system. All of the reviews think highly of them. If you want a stand-alone system, best bang for the buck is the megasquirt system. The best quality systems are the latest FAST, BS3, or Holley. All have their own following, and I'm very happy with the BS3.
     
    #323
  4. Rick 91GT

    Rick 91GT SN Certified Technician Site Sponsor

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    While red loctite "242" high strength should hold, I'd look into other options... I've never had a bolt come loose of the oil pump pickup stud, I also use red loctite there :nice:

    Look at the AEM wideban as well, the kit is decent and I find their sensors to hold up good, Ive killed a few Innovate things lately, along with some buddies....not sure what is goin on. The thing to remember is you need to look at WOT readings in 4th gear under a good heavy load "while not speeding :D" and witht he tires hooked up or you will get a off reading. I typically use them more so I know if something happens while driving, I also corrolate the sensor readings to what I see on the dyno while tuning. Just make sure you do not install the sensor bung inline with the stock O2 or you'll get funky readings.
     
    #324
  5. 1bad67sbf

    1bad67sbf Active Member

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    do you weld the bung before or after the o2 on the car?
     
    #325
  6. Cobra912

    Cobra912 Active Member

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    Nik a wideband is the best investment you can get for your car, even if you don't get someone to "tune" it for you, it is extremely useful to dial in timing and fuel and to warn you of impending doom!
     
    #326
  7. Rick 91GT

    Rick 91GT SN Certified Technician Site Sponsor

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    I weld the bung about 4" back from the stock O2 but swung out of the stock sensor path.
     
    #327
  8. Cobra912

    Cobra912 Active Member

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    and correct me if I'm wrong but it's important to weld the bung so that the sensor faces down instead of up as condensation from the exhuast can damage the sensor
     
    #328
  9. NIKwoaC

    NIKwoaC 中國製造

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    Thanks, dude!

    Yea, a wideband is coming sooner or later. Probably later, haha, the wife is tired of me spending money on the car. In the meantime, I'm just going to read plugs and do things the old fashioned way to get it close. I have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and fuel pressure gauge sitting on a shelf in the garage, I may install that if the plugs show my A/F to be way off. The Abaco MAF meter is also programmable, so I may play with that a little.


    Yea, yea... It's gone. :p I took it out yesterday, and it was actually a **** to take apart. But, it got old real quick trying to take the oil cap off, and the worry of it coming apart inside the engine was consuming me. I need to explore other options to keep oil out of the throttle body (though, I've driven it since, and it has not seemed to burn any more oil). Ideas?

    I will probably run a Quarterhorse. I like the idea of a Megasquirt, but I already have everything in place for a mass-air piggyback. If (*cough* when *cough*) I build another engine for this car or another car, I'll probably dabble into a stand alone system.

    Yea, that thing was on there GOOD. I ended up just using a hacksaw to chop the bolt off. I was able to break loose the nuts that had the Loc-Tite on them, but they still did not want to spin off. It ended up being easier to just cut it off, haha. Red Loc-Tite is SERIOUS. I probably would have been safe with it, but then again, why risk it?

    Thanks for the info, Rick! I'll look into that.
     
    #329
  10. FastDriver

    FastDriver Mod Dude

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    It's a method. I used it for my old n/a setup. The only problem is, for example, when you're way to lean at WOT, you can up the fuel pressure to compensate, but if you have to make a significant change, then even the adaptive changes that the EEC does won't be able to compensate throughout the rest of the powerband, or at differing loads. In my old car, I had to bump the fuel pressure up to 55psi to run right. That worked for WOT, but at idle it was so rich it made my eyes water.

    I started to write about that a little, but then realized that you can't do anything about the limiter, the timing curves, etc... But A/F curves can definitely be adjusted. Though it is effective, adjusting fuel pressure is basically a band-aid. Adjusting the meter will definitely allow you to get the A/F where you want it.



    Ideas:

    1. You can fab or buy a catch can to run between the valve cover and the throttle body.
    2. You can plug the throttle body and run a breather either as your Oil cap, or seperately, of of either valve cover, with a catch can.
    3. You can run taller valve covers that allow for both a baffle and clearance for your rockers.
    4. You can just not worry about the little bit of oil that will get into your TB when you're WOT.

    Typically, when there is a vacuum, air is flowing from the throttle body to the valve cover, through the crankcase to the PCV valve and back into the lower intake. The only time oil should make it all the way to the throttle body is when you're experience positive pressure in the crankcase and there is no better place for the air/oil to go. That will happen at WOT because of blowby (even the best built engines have some), and a lack of vacuum in the intake.

    Keep in mind that by changing the fresh air source away from the TB, you are now going to be moving unmetered air into the motor, which will affect your tune. Not a problem for us speed density guys ;)

    The guys that are good say that the EEC can tune a car every bit as well as any standalone. I say BS, but that's probably a debate for another time, when I'll be happy to fill you in on my feelings. The fact of the matter is that an EEC is good enough for most applications. Plus, it's affordable, cheaper, and it's already installed and ready to go.

    Maybe it would have been fine, but then there's always that chance, the consequences of which could be catastrophic.

    I've read good things about the AEM units, too. I recommend that you look in the accuracy testing that has been done in a couple of magazines. If you need help finding it through google, let me know.
     
    #330
  11. 90lxcoupe

    90lxcoupe Mustang Master

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    You should really dyno the car soon, im curious to see what numbers it puts down
     
    #331
  12. FastDriver

    FastDriver Mod Dude

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    Let me ease your suspense: 260rwhp/280ft-lbs of torque :D
     
    #332
  13. NIKwoaC

    NIKwoaC 中國製造

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    Good post, Chris! I need to start playing with the Abaco software and see what I can do with it. Unfortunately, I have a Mac, and the software is Windows-based. Stoopid Apple.

    You and me both! I just can't wait for the 500 mile mark so I can start pounding gears and not worry about the new clutch. If you've ever heard of Brenspeed, I used to live 20 minutes away from their headquarters and I used to hang with their dyno operator/shop manager from time to time. His personal toy (one of them) was a BRIGHT orange 4 eye coupe with GT40 parts and a supercharger, IIRC it ran deep 11s. It's been years since I've talked to those guys, but I still would like to take my car there and put it on the rollers.

    Haha, how disappointing would that be?
     
    #333
  14. FastDriver

    FastDriver Mod Dude

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    Did your cam guy tell you where he'd expect the motor to peak? I know your cam specs are buried somewhere in this thread, but IIRC it was 215/224 with a 112LSA right?

    With a 224/228 111LSA cam on my 302, the motor peaked at around 5300rpm. That was with a small set of heads and a cobra intake, though. With a somewhat similarly sized 228/224 (114LSA I think) on my 331 it actually peaked about 1000 rpm higher, which I attribute to the big flowing AFR205s and Box upper TFS-R intake.

    The following is entirely made up of loose-logic based on my old builds... chalk it up as speculation and nothing more:
    Your cams intake duration is considerably smaller than either of those cams, so that should bring the powerband down a little. But your heads and intake should breath similarly to the ones on my 331, which will bring it back up. The smaller displacement would shift the powerband up in rpm (or down in power at the same rpm), too. My guess is your engine's theoretical peak will be somewhere north of 6000 rpm. Maybe 6500-6600 RPM? I've never tried to estimate a power peak on a motor before, but that's my best guess. If that's right, then I think you're going to make 335-355rwhp (SAE, dynojet) at 6000 RPM. Is that how high you want to run it on the dyno?
     
    #334
  15. 90lxcoupe

    90lxcoupe Mustang Master

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    Ive never broken a clutch in for more than a few miles, and never had a problem. What do race teams do to break in a clutch?
     
    #335
  16. NIKwoaC

    NIKwoaC 中國製造

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    I'm on the same page with you there, Chris. Just going by dyno results from other people's cars and magazine builds (and also CamQuest, though that only goes in 500 RPM intervals), I was guessing the car would peak around 6200-6500. I think I mentioned it a few pages back, but I kind of had an idea of what I wanted the cam to look like, and Mike at TEA helped me finalize the lobes. Mike never gave me any real specifics of what the cam would do, he just really delivered a cam that I asked for. I think I told him that I thought it should be 21X/22X @ .050 with ~.600 lift and a 112 LSA, I wanted it to have good low RPM street manners and wanted to get away without notching the pistons. He said "OK", hung up the phone, called me 20 minutes later with part numbers from the Comp master lobe catalog, and the rest is history.

    I've been trying to stay quiet about my HP goals, in case I completely fall short, haha. But now that you mention it, I was hoping to be North of 330 to the tire.

    Good point, good point. I just put a lot of work into this so far, don't want to cut corners now! :D The instructions with the clutch call for 500-1000 miles. I'm already at 100, just going to get to 500 and then I'll tear into it.
     
    #336
  17. FoxGT87

    FoxGT87 Well-Known Member

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    Instructions? your a man! You don't need instructions!
     
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  18. 1bad67sbf

    1bad67sbf Active Member

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    when i put the clutch in my 84f150 my way of testing/ breaking in it was to start it and back it off my property into a mud hole and do a hard launch. it threw mud 20-30feet in the air and the break in was done.lol
     
    #338
  19. 95BlueStallion

    95BlueStallion Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I did a burn out outside of my Dad's shop when we installed my new clutch a couple years ago. Ive heard of glazing it when its new though, so I can understand your worries Nik.
     
    #339
  20. 94gtfreak

    94gtfreak Active Member

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    Dude!! Vid sounds sik! We need to get us Indy Stangnet guys together sometime!
     
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