stangdude2000
Founding Member
Return of the 5.0 Mustang
- Thread starter DarkFireGT
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red05bullitgt
Member
Well I suppose there's always the Hydrogen Combustion Engine, or perhaps even the possibility of Propane.
Just as long as were still able to experience the same muscle car rumble, and power of a V8
Just as long as were still able to experience the same muscle car rumble, and power of a V8
stangdude2000
Founding Member
A little :OT:, but did you know water vapor is a stronger greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide? Over 95% of the greenhouse effect is due to water vapor. Since hydrogen cars produce almost exclusively water vapor as their exhaust products (there are a few minor contaminents from lubricants, etc.), hydrogen cars would actually prove to be worse for "global warming," if it even human influenced. That's a new thread though.
I say bring on the 5.0 or the 6.2L!!! I'll take either!
red05bullitgt
Member
I didn't know that, until you brought it to my attention. But here's an idea that may reduce greenhouse gases. Much in the same way as catalytic converters, smog pumps ect. reduce carbon dioxide emissions. Perhaps similar, but more advanced technology may be implemented in reducing water vapor gases. Otherwise, the fuel cell may be the only other alternative 
In the meantime, I'll settle for a 400HP 5.0 mod motor, hands down
In the meantime, I'll settle for a 400HP 5.0 mod motor, hands down
The mustang is a muscle car and never should be a hybrid no more than a vett. They have other cars for the greens to choose from that arent sports cars. Also when more alternitive fuels come on line, gas prices will drop. Us mustangs guy's will be able to get gas for 50 cents a gallon as we will be the only one's left using it
My thoughts exactly. And that's exactly why it won't die off, and why the V8 option won't go away.
scupking
Active Member
This is what should happen, muscle cars and trucks should stay with gas V-8s. It then should be mandatory that all other cars (4 and 6 cylinders) be hybrids or all electric.
red05bullitgt
Member
Once alternative fuels become mainstream, and on line. Do you really believe that for one moment, the oil companies will actually sell gasoline to us enthusiasts for $.50 gal ? I think not, and here's why. Once alternative fuels become mainstream, there will no longer be any reason to depend on foreign oil. And whatever remains left over, you can bet your bottom dollar, that our greedy oil companies are going to milk every single $$$, until the very last drop. Count on it 
226embarcadero
New Member
I couldn't disagree more.
That argument is like saying gasoline won't run out someday.
Maybe not 50 cents a gallon, but alternitive fuels will bring down the price of gas to be competetive with other forms of energy thats available. The combustion engine isn't going anywhere in our life time, it just will no longer be the only engine. Oil has been the only game in town, but not much longer. Only when we have a choice of the form of energy we want to use will oil fight for your business as in a lower more attractive price. The combustion engine is too good at what it does to be totally phased out anytime soon. I don't exspect to see an electric bulldozer, or hydrogen locomotive, on some machines oil will allways be king, the difference is we'll be able to make it instaed of drill for it.
red05bullitgt
Member
If we were actually drilling for our own oil, do you really think that gas prices would be close to $4 per gal, and climbing ? Let alone paying close to $120 per barrel to our friends in the middle east.
Even as greedy as our oil companies have become, I'm pretty confident that if we were drilling for our own oil, and weren't dependent upon foreign oil companies. We would still be paying under a $1.00 per gal at the pump today.
As for making our own oil, instead of drilling for it. I also brought this up in a previous thread, however one of the other members, mentioned that it would cost more to make.
Even as greedy as our oil companies have become, I'm pretty confident that if we were drilling for our own oil, and weren't dependent upon foreign oil companies. We would still be paying under a $1.00 per gal at the pump today.
As for making our own oil, instead of drilling for it. I also brought this up in a previous thread, however one of the other members, mentioned that it would cost more to make.
I'll admit that I'm far from being a chemist, but if we're able to produce fully synthetic motor oils. Then why are we not able to produce synthetic based fuels/gasoline.
If memory serves correctly, is not conventional gasoline produced from 100% crude oil ?
Seems to me, we should be able to make fully synthetic gasoline, from 100% synthetic motor oil
Perhaps costs would reduce significantly, once our dependency on foreign oil becomes a thing of the past.
At this point, anything would be better than being held hostage, by Saudi Arabia
I work at a University and I do research in the field of alternative fuels so I do know a little about what is on the horizon.
Yes, we can make our own synthetic fuels, most of which are ethanol, biodiesel, and yes gasoline can be made, but remember that biodiesel and "synthetic" gasoline are very similar to regular diesel and gasoline, they are all carbon based and therefore you must have a carbon based source to make them. All our crude oil is just carbon based material that the Earth has processed for us using temperature and pressure. We can do the same thing using high temperture to break down the carbon sources and than restructuring them into other type of carbon chains, i.e. gasoline and diesel.
For those of you thinking Hydrogen is the answer, I have one question for you: Where does the Hydrogen come from? The answer, we have to use energy, usually by consuming petroluem (natural gas, coal, etc.) to form the Hydrogen. There are other ways, but it takes a termendous amount of energy to so this. A Hydrogen economy is not practical today.
For those of you doubting hybrids and electric cars, I am sorry but they are here to stay this time. Yes, we can drill till our hearts content, and yes we do have a lot of oil under the ground, but it takes a lot of energy to get it out and it costs a lot of money. A lot of alternative energy sources will work economically when oil is above $100/ barrel. The high price of oil is here to stay, the world's demand is growing even if the US's demand is shrinking and that will keep the price high. If you think that oil companies will drill just off the coast of the US and keep the oil here you have a thing to learn about business. Oil companies will sell to the highest bidder.
I love Mustangs and muscle cars and will always love them, but big inefficient engines of today can't last much longer. If gas prices don't get them, regulations will. Remember, the car companies have to meet new MPG standards soon.
Also, for the person who mentioned water vapor as a green house gas, remember all combustion creates water vapor, but unlike CO2 and methane, water vapor falls back to the Earth, it is called rain.
Sorry for any spelling errors, I didn't feel like editing.
Yes, we can make our own synthetic fuels, most of which are ethanol, biodiesel, and yes gasoline can be made, but remember that biodiesel and "synthetic" gasoline are very similar to regular diesel and gasoline, they are all carbon based and therefore you must have a carbon based source to make them. All our crude oil is just carbon based material that the Earth has processed for us using temperature and pressure. We can do the same thing using high temperture to break down the carbon sources and than restructuring them into other type of carbon chains, i.e. gasoline and diesel.
For those of you thinking Hydrogen is the answer, I have one question for you: Where does the Hydrogen come from? The answer, we have to use energy, usually by consuming petroluem (natural gas, coal, etc.) to form the Hydrogen. There are other ways, but it takes a termendous amount of energy to so this. A Hydrogen economy is not practical today.
For those of you doubting hybrids and electric cars, I am sorry but they are here to stay this time. Yes, we can drill till our hearts content, and yes we do have a lot of oil under the ground, but it takes a lot of energy to get it out and it costs a lot of money. A lot of alternative energy sources will work economically when oil is above $100/ barrel. The high price of oil is here to stay, the world's demand is growing even if the US's demand is shrinking and that will keep the price high. If you think that oil companies will drill just off the coast of the US and keep the oil here you have a thing to learn about business. Oil companies will sell to the highest bidder.
I love Mustangs and muscle cars and will always love them, but big inefficient engines of today can't last much longer. If gas prices don't get them, regulations will. Remember, the car companies have to meet new MPG standards soon.
Also, for the person who mentioned water vapor as a green house gas, remember all combustion creates water vapor, but unlike CO2 and methane, water vapor falls back to the Earth, it is called rain.
Sorry for any spelling errors, I didn't feel like editing.
stangdude2000
Founding Member
Not to be trivia-master here, but here's another did-you-know (very few people realize this): Oil companies do know have any higher of a profit margin than your average company, which is around 10%. It just so happens that they are in an EXTREMELY high revenue industry which explains the record profits.
Does this make them greedy? That is up for debate. One could say yes since they could easily reduce their profit margin to help reduce prices for the consumer (although who is to say the oil producers wouldn't see the extra profit opportunity then raise the crude prices anyway). One could also easily argue that there is no reason why the oil companies should have to sink to a lower profit margin than any other company just because of the industry they are in. I tend to side with the latter, but thats because we still have some of the cheapest gasoline in the world.
Does this make them greedy? That is up for debate. One could say yes since they could easily reduce their profit margin to help reduce prices for the consumer (although who is to say the oil producers wouldn't see the extra profit opportunity then raise the crude prices anyway). One could also easily argue that there is no reason why the oil companies should have to sink to a lower profit margin than any other company just because of the industry they are in. I tend to side with the latter, but thats because we still have some of the cheapest gasoline in the world.
red05bullitgt
Member
If you must have a carbon based source to make synthetic gasoline, why not just make it directly from 100% non-crude synthetic motor oil
stangdude2000
Founding Member
Very true and valid point. Remember rain also evaporates and returns to the atmosphere as water vapor. You clearly know about chemistry, physics, etc., so don't forget that until there is a chemical reaction, any atomic water that is produced remains water. If turns into liquid, it will evaporate and turn back to the vapor form.
Has anyone seen a study that has analyzed this? I did calculations to compare burning amounts of gasoline and hydrogen to produce the identical amount of energy (under ideal circumstances) while I was in college and it turned out that hydrogen would be "worse." I obviously did not factor in real world variables such as efficiency of engines/vehicles translating that energy into a useable form or the previously mentioned "rain" factor. Since more water vapor would create more clouds (which actually causes global cooling), it could be an interesting result.
stangdude2000
Founding Member
So if synthetic gasoline would still be carbon based, why not just make it directly from 100% non-crude synthetic motor oil
I'd imagine costs would start to get prohibitive. Mobil-1 Synthetic is what, something like $7-8/quart? That's $30/gallon for the oil. I don't know how all that synthesizing works though.
red05bullitgt
Member
At $120 per barrel and rising, it sure won't remain the cheapest gasoline in the world for much longer !
red05bullitgt
Member
I'd imagine costs would start to get prohibitive. Mobil-1 Synthetic is what, something like $7-8/quart? That's $30/gallon for the oil. I don't know how all that synthesizing works though.
I don't know how the synthesizing process works either. As for costs being prohibitive, I was hoping that perhaps it wouldn't be nearly as prohibitive as our current situation is with our friends from the middle east. At least we would no longer be held hostage by their greed, and hate towards the U.S
226embarcadero
New Member
I'm not sold on this.
I think the oil companies have higher margins than average corps.
One method of making liquid fuels from carbon based sources is called gasification and pyrolysis. The basic idea is taking a material and heating it up anywhere from 600 F to 2000 F without Oxygen or with so little oxygen that combustion is prevented. At these temperatures, most organic material is converted into gases such as CO, methane, H2, etc. You can use different technologies to convert these to liquid fuels such as Fisher Tropse (spelling is not right) or just look up liquidfaction. Germans used it in either WWI or WWII to convert coal to liquid fuels. People are researching and in some cases doing it converting things like garbage (plastics, food wastes, etc.) and agricultural wastes (animal manures, wood, etc.) to liquid fuels.
Just google gasification or liquidfaction or Fisher Tropse or waste to energy or gas to liquid fuels.
On the water vapor as a green house gas. There have been studies on how much water vapor exists and so far it has not changed that much, but one interesting note is when 9/11 happened and all planes were grounded it was noticed that the temperature dropped. The thought is that since jets fly so high that the water vapor helped form clouds instead of condensing back to earth like a lot of water vapor from cars and the decrease in water vapor from jets decreased the greenhouse effect enough to decrease the temperature. I will try and find more information on this.
Just google gasification or liquidfaction or Fisher Tropse or waste to energy or gas to liquid fuels.
On the water vapor as a green house gas. There have been studies on how much water vapor exists and so far it has not changed that much, but one interesting note is when 9/11 happened and all planes were grounded it was noticed that the temperature dropped. The thought is that since jets fly so high that the water vapor helped form clouds instead of condensing back to earth like a lot of water vapor from cars and the decrease in water vapor from jets decreased the greenhouse effect enough to decrease the temperature. I will try and find more information on this.
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