Thumper heads vs Powerheads? Input requested

H

Highbredcloud

Active Member
Mar 4, 2003
1,075
1
36
Palos Hills, IL
#1
Well...just what the title says. I have stumbled upon an ad in a 5.0 Mustang magazine for powerheads. So I checked them out and I must say I am impressed at what I see. Stock E7TE heads CNC ported with 1.90 intake valves and 1.60 exhaust valves flow 217cfm on the intake and 174 cfm on the exhaust. Pretty impressive. However, our very own Thumper460 also ports the heads and his flow numbers are similar 219cfm on intake and 154 cfm on exhaust but he usues stock valve sizes 1.78 on intake and 1.46 on exhaust. I know there are many people running thumper heads here but I also have seen people that inquired about powerheads as well. How do the two compare? It seems like the Thumper heads would be more torquey since they use smaller valves but the powerheads seem to flow better on the exhaust side where it matters to most. According to Powerheads.com website their heads made 38RWHP and 39RWTQ...(not sure if this was just with a head swap or other bolt ons as well) Not really sure what the thumper heads make but I have seen some dyno results of Rio5.0 that made 255RWHP and 300RWTQ with thumper/tmoss setup along with a steed #19 cam and the rest of the bolt ons, which is also very impressive. Any comments on the two? :shrug: Just curious

checkout this website...really cool info on all the heads flow numbers.

http://home.isoa.net/~mharrisj/fordhead.html
 

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#4
89tang said:
wasn't there a thread about this before, or maybe it was for other heads but i can see how this will end just like those very very ugly......... :D
Click to expand...

I don't recall a thread of this subject...but who knows the search function must hate me. Why do you say that? There was no flame intended in my post...just want to find out what the deal is with Powerheads using bigger valves and thumper using smaller valves and yet achieving about the same flow numbers...I guess my question would be which head does better in what RPM range due the the valve sizes...Heck I don't even know if that matters. It's either stock ported heads that flow the same as out of the box aluminum heads for $300-500 less or aluminum heads that weigh 1/2 as much and dispense heat better..I just don't know right now.
 
#5
I know you wasn't flaming anyone, i'm just saying there's been tons of heads compared an everytime thumper heads are brought up well almost everytime it leads to a 7 page long thread about nothing but arguing.
 
#6
89tang you're exactly correct, shortly "EDC", "cleanlx", "TOMATO", etc, will jump in to tell us (Thumper users) we're all a bunch of dumb asses. They'll want to know our times, numbers, will it lift the wheels, blah-blah. That's why you see us less and less on these boards unless we have a real problem we need help with. It's ironic that most of the ported stock parts users are the ones with other finincial commitments that they are responsible enough to take care of ahead of buying car parts for themselves. Sure I could buy my kids/wife less this year and spring for the new Lentech I need in order to make 1/4 passes or some dyno pulls, but I'm not going to. Highbred, read up on proven combo's, someone with powerheads will post with times and numbers, then make your own call, it's all good. Budget what you can spend AFTER you take care of the things that are most importaant to YOU!

Later and good luck,

vann
 
#7
A lot of guys miss the point....

EDC and many others just do not see the numbers or gains from a set of stock heads worth the money unless you HAVE to run them for a specifc class. Most of the ported stock head use stock hardware and if you get into all the options of larger valves, springs etc..you could have bought a set of alum heads that are not maxed out, and will give you room to grow. I hate wasting money and buying parts twice, I'm abudget racer as well so I don't want to hear all the credit card racers because if I don't have the cash it doesn't get bought, and Ed doesn't except Credit Cards anyway...lol

My $.02 on this subject, to each his own.... FWIW,stock E-7's got me into the high 12's.

Do a search on "Thumper" if you want any info there are atleast 100 threads on this subject, all 10 pages long.
 
#8
Rick 91GT said:
EDC and many others just do not see the numbers or gains from a set of stock heads worth the money unless you HAVE to run them for a specifc class. Most of the ported stock head use stock hardware and if you get into all the options of larger valves, springs etc..you could have bought a set of alum heads that are not maxed out, and will give you room to grow. I hate wasting money and buying parts twice, I'm abudget racer as well so I don't want to hear all the credit card racers because if I don't have the cash it doesn't get bought, and Ed doesn't except Credit Cards anyway...lol

My $.02 on this subject, to each his own.... FWIW,stock E-7's got me into the high 12's.

Do a search on "Thumper" if you want any info there are atleast 100 threads on this subject, all 10 pages long.
Click to expand...

Exactly, thumper heads are great i have a set they made the power i wanted to make at the time. But one thing i wanted more power an the thumpers couldn't perform what i wanted without doing some serious work to them i wasted some money but i thought that's all i wanted outta the car boy was i wrong lol. So i emailed Ed an will be getting back ahold of him after christmas for a set of 165s an a custom cam.

I might add Ed's the man, he told me what i needed to know over email an he was nice as could be, two :nice: :nice: for Ed.
 
#9
So says " stan Weiss's Cylinder Heads flow data"
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm
Check this web out... might help!! He has done math to show HP from certain head flow numbers!! ( one site of many) Stock E7s {154/107}= 316.8 HP, GT40s {187/129} = 384.7, GT40Ps {190/127} = 390.0, Ported E7s {203/164}= 417.6 HP, and the AFR165 {232/188} 477.3 HP Of course the cam is the magic key to it all... with the right cams the engine will be tricked and pull more HP!! cool?? It really is a buyers market with heads..... and Just because you do bolt on a certain head, Doesnt mean your king od the street!! No matter what you do, it takes the right combo and tuning... hope this helps.

The question?? oh yeah, Power heads has a web and catalog!!

Just me.........................

Thumper
 
#10
well thanks guys...I know where people like Ed are comming from with buying heads with the intention that one day there is room to grow, however, honestly once I put the heads on I never want to take them off unless I blow something simply for the fact that it takes me to damn long to do. LOL. I already have a set of aluminum heads on my car and a custom cam. I really like it but I'm not sure if I want expensive parts on my daily driver for now. I like the idea of Thumper heads since the flow numbers are the same as my GT-40X out of the box. However, my question was regarding Thumper heads vs Powerheads? I know that Thumper uses 5 angle valve job to better the air flow I don't know about the Powerheads but they do use bigger valves and I am just curious what are the advantages of thumpers vs powerheads and vice versa...if any for that matter. I don't plan on spending alot...that's one thing and I need to build this combo so that it is reliable as daily driver. I still am open to suggestions and have the GT-40Y heads in the back of my mind. If someone can give me the bad and to good I would appreciate it.
 
#11
thumper460 said:
So says " stan Weiss's Cylinder Heads flow data"
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm
Check this web out... might help!! He has done math to show HP from certain head flow numbers!! ( one site of many) Stock E7s {154/107}= 316.8 HP, GT40s {187/129} = 384.7, GT40Ps {190/127} = 390.0, Ported E7s {203/164}= 417.6 HP, and the AFR165 {232/188} 477.3 HP Of course the cam is the magic key to it all... with the right cams the engine will be tricked and pull more HP!! cool?? It really is a buyers market with heads..... and Just because you do bolt on a certain head, Doesnt mean your king od the street!! No matter what you do, it takes the right combo and tuning... hope this helps.

The question?? oh yeah, Power heads has a web and catalog!!

Just me.........................

Thumper
Click to expand...

Thumper...the numbers on that website especially the HP ones, are those what the heads can produce or a capable of. I'm assuming that is a the flywheel. Anyways, my question to you...How is it that you get the about the same flow numbers as the powerheads but you use smaller valves...My take on this is, however I'm not sure that's why I want to ask... you do more extensive port work to allow the air to travel faster therefore you don't need bigger valaves...Powerheads use bigger valves maybe because they don't do as much porting and by sticking bigger valves in they can achieve the same effect. However, if Powerheads are not ported enogh benefit from the bigger valves there is really no point...Y

ou could probably see that I'm very confused right now at what I'm trying to explain I guess what I really mean is how can your heads achieve the same flow number with smaller valves as the powerheads that use bigger valves...What would happen if you were to use the same size valves as Poweheads on your heads...More improvement in the high RPM's? I noticed you offer GT-40 exhaust valves for your thumper heads...How do those compare with the stock valves in performace? Is the head making better numbers with bigger valves and where...mid range, upper end?
 
#12
I have powerheads on my 351w. 11.5:1 comp, 580 lift cam, blah blah.. ran 12.1 at 109, 11.1 at 119 wit 150 shot. These heads worked great for me and id recommend them. O yea i have afr 185's waiting to install on it and putting the 351w powerheads on my 5.0. Ill let everyone know the difference in power when the track opens.
 
#13
89tang said:
wasn't there a thread about this before, or maybe it was for other heads but i can see how this will end just like those very very ugly......... :D
Click to expand...
Yep there was, I started it a month ago, after taking my stock heads off and saw how heavy they were, I lost interest in both, and bought twisted wedge heads......
 
#14
Ocalafox said:
89tang you're exactly correct, shortly "EDC", "cleanlx", "TOMATO", etc, will jump in to tell us (Thumper users) we're all a bunch of dumb asses.
vann
Click to expand...

Ummm...
Are you aware that I'm actually running a completly stock motor? And like it.
I am currently finishing up a modified stock head'd combo... that even includes stock intake and tb... should finally be on the road before the New Year... only 4 months later than originally scheduled... because of budget... I know all about retirement savings and home improvement AND saving for my wedding this comming summer. My car is at the very bottom of the list. Heck, I'm still running factory original shocks/struts/bushings/plug wires/cap/rotor etc etc.

I think you've either misread, or misunderstood what I've typed in the past.
I will have less than 600 in mine, and that includes fancy new double springs, new in the box roller rockers and all new valve train.
For the record, they outflow Powerheads and Thumpers at 0.100, 0.200, 0.300, 0.400... and 0.500, they barely flow any better at 0.600 or 0.700 than they do at 0.500.

Folks that elect to spend 700-900 bux on E7's should really shop around.

That is all.

One more thing... it took me over a year of collecting parts to even be able to start the project, and if it were not for guys like 86Cobra giving me stuff they no longer have use for, and helping me learn to do the work myself, all the parts would still be in the closet.
I as much as anyone respect tight budgets.
And yes, running the numbers is what it's all about, otherwise you'd leave it stock, or drive a Camery.

There, that is all.
 
#15
for the original question:
I like that Thumper uses the smaller valves, and does minimal hogging of the runners, and concentrates more on bowls/short turns and a good valve job to get things done.

I like that Powerheads use a CNC machine to get exact results time and time again, and get good proven balance from port to port, and, that they have a flowbench on site to base thier info on.

If I could not get someone local to do the same work more economically, or could not find TEA's phone number, who quoted me a very nice deal on bowl/short turn comp. valve job and mill, and could not find a better deal on aftermarket heads, I'd just run stock heads.

I'm running E7's because I'm stubborn, not because I think they'll make better power than GT40's, GT40P's, Windsor Jr's that can all be picked up cheaper. Let alone some of the deals you see on GT40 aluminiums, E-brocks etc etc. that can be picked up used, and freshened up for about the same money as fresh E7's from those mentioned.

My .02
 
#17
Ho Hum..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........

This gets REALLY old. Set a goal for yourself. Approach it methodically. Start off with understanding what your car weighs and how fast you want to run in the quarter if that's important, or set a HP goal.

If you weigh ~3100# you can get mid 12s with 250RWHP and the right supporting parts. At ~3650# you can get mid 12s with 290RWHP with the right supporting parts. These are often targeted and sought after targets for a truely streetable car. You can pretty much interpolate weight vs power in between.

Here is a tabke of other targets and weights - the numbers in the table are FLYWHEEL and are close approximates.

Set your goal and spend your money effectively - don't overpay.

nough said!
 
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