Trick Flow vs Canfield Heads

[fasttback]

I know another one of these posts, but after reading numerous threads and web sites I want comments/opinions about my personal setup before I dump $2000 on heads.

I want to purchase some good out of the box cylinder heads that are aluminum, all runners and combustion chambers CNC machined, with at least 65cc combustion chambers. I think I have narrowed it down to Trick Flow CNC-ported Track Heat Aluminum heads (TFS-51400010-C02) and Canfield 20475-65-1-B with custom CNC porting. Budget around $2000.00. AFR 185 or 205 would be here if they made a big enough combustion chamber.

Which head would be the best for the following ½ strip ½ street motor? Opinions/comments…

Block 1968 302 Mexican bored 60 over (352 cubic inches w/ 3.4” stroke)
Forged steel crank 3.4” stroke
H-beam connecting rods
JE flat top pistons (11:1 compression ratio w/ 65cc head)

Solid flat tappet cam .528 I & E w/ 1.6 ratio and .568 I & E w/ 1.72 ratio
Duration 236 at .050
Lobe center 110

Victor Junior manifold (soon to be gasket matched to new heads)
Mighty Demon 750 CFM

Doug Thorley full-length headers w/ 2.5” mandrel bent tubing, x-pipe

Toploader 4-speed with 9” 3.89:1 ratio

Oops I almost forgot, this is going in a 67 Mustang.

 

[brin0357]

Why do you want aluminum heads? I am not sure where in CA you are but if your around santa clara iish get to Gromm's and have him build you a set of heads. If you get some iron windsor heads or something and he can do some sick work for the price youd pay for aluminum heads.

 

[66bluepony]

Heads

Aluminum heads flow more and weight less. Both are good, I hear that the canfields outflow everything. Either one will be very good.

 

[brin0357]

Aluminum heads flow more and weight less. Both are good, I hear that the canfields outflow everything. Either one will be very good.

Whats aluminum have to do with them flowing more?

 

[SoCalCruising]

Single pattern cam ... you'll need a good E/I ratio. Get a head with around .70 - .75 ratio. Since you are running .060" over, you could remove some material from the combustion chamber (i.e., unshroud the valves) of 64cc heads. You can open them to 65-66cc without much trouble, I should think. AFRs might come back into play.

 

[rebel65]

Whats aluminum have to do with them flowing more?

all aluminum heads ( bassically ) are aftermarket. we understand you don't care for aluminum heads but if someone has the money for them then they WILL kick the butt of iron heads. if he wanted iron heads he would say so. aluminum weighs SO much less than iron heads anyway the 20 lbs or more that you save is worth it in my book. less heaving around.

 

[fasttback]

all aluminum heads ( bassically ) are aftermarket. we understand you don't care for aluminum heads but if someone has the money for them then they WILL kick the butt of iron heads. if he wanted iron heads he would say so. aluminum weighs SO much less than iron heads anyway the 20 lbs or more that you save is worth it in my book. less heaving around.

Yes, this is true. I wanted to run iron at first (which has some advantages), but with my application aluminum seems to match up better. My other Mustang will receive the 351W iron heads (which have served me well). I think it's time to give aluminum a try though.

 

[brin0357]

Yeah but a properly worked and built to your engine head would work better than an out of the box aluminum. That way keeping him within the price range and having a good set of performing heads. I am just throwin that out, wether he takes my advice or not is up to him.

 

[fasttback]

Why do you want aluminum heads? I am not sure where in CA you are but if your around santa clara iish get to Gromm's and have him build you a set of heads. If you get some iron windsor heads or something and he can do some sick work for the price youd pay for aluminum heads.

That's interesting you brought up Gromm Racing. My 351W iron heads were prepped by him around 1989-90 (I used to live in San Jose). At the time SBF Dart heads were just coming out...with the money I spent on Gromm prepping the Windsor heads I could have brought a set of Dart first generation heads. The work he did was good and I still have the heads today, but they are going on another car.

Aluminum vs Iron - First the weight savings and second I've heard you can get more compression and timing out of comparable aluminum heads.

 

[brin0357]

Yeah he is pretty expensive, but he does really good work. Iron heads you can make more power with because of irons heat retention properties as opposed to aluminum, but if the weight savings are worth it to you then go for it. Bottom line is those aluminum heads are pretty good. From what I have seen Trickflow's trackheat line of products have all performed well. Not sure about Canfields. EDIT: I wasn't trying to say that aluminum heads arent very good in my previous posts.

 

[67Dylan]

How aggressive is that cam? What's the duration @ .006? Why not go w/a custom grind to get the most out of the combo and still have nice street manners?

IMO, both those heads are more than you need according to how you're gonna use the car. I'd think either one out of the box would be more than sufficient.

 

[SoCalCruising]

Iron heads retain more heat ... yes, but they also will cause pinging at a lower CR. If building from scratch, plan the CR for aluminum (.5 - 1.0 point higher) and the power is back, plus the weight savings. 40-50 lbs off the front end is always a good bet for better weight transfer/balance for either road or strip driving.

 

[brianj5600]

Iron heads are dead. Look no further than the engine masters entries. Weight is not an issue, but every last HP is. They ALL use aluminum. I thought AFR was going to start making a 70cc chamber? 11:1 seems borderline with 110 lsa and 236*@.050".

 

[1320stang]

all aluminum heads ( bassically ) are aftermarket. we understand you don't care for aluminum heads but if someone has the money for them then they WILL kick the butt of iron heads. if he wanted iron heads he would say so. aluminum weighs SO much less than iron heads anyway the 20 lbs or more that you save is worth it in my book. less heaving around.

Uhh, I ran 11.0s in the 1/4 with prolly Stage 2 '69 351w heads on a N/A 289 in a 3000# '69 Mach I with a 4-speed, 5.67 gears and two year old 9x30 slicks. 11.08 to be specific, pulling the front tires about a foot in the air. Could it have run better with Stage 2 aluminum heads? Prolly so, the chamber on a '69 351w head is quite a bit bigger than an aluminum head can be had, I was running 12.7:1 TRWs but with the 351w head, it was more like 11.0:1.

Point is, you can have a full on port job done on a set of iron heads for 1/4 of that aluminum head price. Then put the money saved into a better valve train like Jesel or T&D and for the same price, I bet it'd outperform the aluminum head.

Plus its just a whole lot of fun when people see what you run and you tell 'em those are just some old '69 351w heads.

Les Schmader in Lucinda, PA does a hella job on heads as I understand and his price is great. His serious Pro Street job is $350/pr and his competition only job is $500/pr. http://www.lesport.8m.com/lesport2.html I plan on sending him a set of 390 heads one of these days.

 

[1320stang]

Iron heads are dead. Look no further than the engine masters entries. Weight is not an issue, but every last HP is. They ALL use aluminum.

Poor analogy. I know guys that have taken off stock heads and put on out of the box aluminum heads and only picked up a tenth. For me, it's performance to the dollar ratio. I'm not saying aluminum heads aren't great, I'd love to have a set of Blue Thunder High Riser heads for my FE. But so many people have their street/strip (95%/5%) that have aluminum heads that don't even need them. It's a bling factor more than anything.

 

[brianj5600]

I disagree. I have taken the early 351 head route. By the time you leave the machine shop, you will be nearing the price of aftermarket stuff w/o porting. You need new valves, guides, seats, seals, studs, guide plates, springs, retainers, and locks. Machine work adds up too. Magnafluxing, cut for larger valves, hardened seats installed, milling for studs and guide plates, tapping for studs, valve job all add up. When all is said and done you have an expensive head that is not as good as an AFR or other top head.

 

[grego37]

have you considered the TFS-R heads?
They claim great numbers right out of the box. Can purchase fully assembled too.
I put a set on a 408W and love them.

 

[57fairlane]

11:1 seems borderline with 110 lsa and 236*@.050".

How would you know that without knowing the valve timing events?


I would go with Canfield 195s and I would second the custom-ground cam. Why would you spend $2000 on heads but skimp $100 on a cam. Jay Allen runs a set of a custom cam and the 195s with the valve springs you need for ~$1400

 

[thehueypilot]

I like the valve guides in the iron head because they last longer than the brass guides in the aluminum heads. I don't like the strain on my privates installing the iron heads. I have both type heads and for a stock street car I went with iron heads and for the race car I went with AFR225's and they both work good for the application they are in. Most street cars will never use the flow that the expensive heads will give so why waste the money when you could send it to me?

 

[fasttback]

have you considered the TFS-R heads?
They claim great numbers right out of the box. Can purchase fully assembled too.
I put a set on a 408W and love them.

yea, I looked at these too, but I figured the R-series was designed more for large displacement motors with a lot of flow. I know they will work...but maybe too much for my setup. I think I like the higher potential velocity produced by the 185-205 cc intake versions. Nice heads though!