Trick Flow vs Canfield Heads

[fasttback]

How would you know that without knowing the valve timing events?


I would go with Canfield 195s and I would second the custom-ground cam. Why would you spend $2000 on heads but skimp $100 on a cam. Jay Allen runs a set of a custom cam and the 195s with the valve springs you need for ~$1400

Good advice. I did want a little more duration on my current cam. Forgot about custom...I will look into it more.

 

[brin0357]

Heat is power is heat .

 

[1320stang]

I disagree. I have taken the early 351 head route. By the time you leave the machine shop, you will be nearing the price of aftermarket stuff w/o porting. You need new valves, guides, seats, seals, studs, guide plates, springs, retainers, and locks. Machine work adds up too. Magnafluxing, cut for larger valves, hardened seats installed, milling for studs and guide plates, tapping for studs, valve job all add up. When all is said and done you have an expensive head that is not as good as an AFR or other top head.

If you are buying aluminum heads, you should buy the unassembled kind, right? If you're buying a engine shop's heads, they'll have put the best stuff in there already, correct? Bare SBF aluminum heads are around $1000, early 351 heads can be had for under $100, so we're at a $900 difference. Machine work for each is basically the same price, so based on that, a set of iron heads would be around $800 cheaper, right?

Let's just agree to disagree. I agree that, each set of heads done, the aluminum ones will be worth more if you want to sell and more people will be apt to purchase them. But there are guys running 'stock' parts in NHRA Stock that will kick just about anything you can build in the butt. And they're running Ford heads, not even arftermarket iron heads. There's also the option of buying some used heads, either in aluminum or iron versions. I sold my 351 heads for $600 with 1.6 Ersons and guide plates and they were already studded. The guy is running them on a 347 '89 hatch with N02, AOD and a built rear, but I don't know the gears. He was running 11.70s N/A on a engine built for a power adder and he's happy. They're a 'tweener head for him to get him going until he's ready to step up a bit more, then he'll go aluminum, but they were hella better than the E7 heads he had.

Again, I'm not saying aluminum is bad, but I'd win a bet that over 50% of the people that have aluminum heads on this board don't need them, they're simply bling.

 

[brin0357]

I agee I think that money could be better used elsewhere. Set the motor backa few inches, thats gonna have a better effect than dropping 40 pounds off the front end. But to each his own.

 

[brianj5600]

How would you know that without knowing the valve timing events?


I would go with Canfield 195s and I would second the custom-ground cam. Why would you spend $2000 on heads but skimp $100 on a cam. Jay Allen runs a set of a custom cam and the 195s with the valve springs you need for ~$1400

I don't know. Those numbers are valve timing events and ground in and don't have alot of overlap. The cam can be advanced or retarded, but those numbers never change. The Jay Allen deal sounds good.

 

[mikemustang289]

Call Jay, www.camshaftinnovations.com

He'll set you up with a set of canfields and a custom cam with the correct springs for around $1600.

I guarantee you'll be faster than running any cylinder head with your current cam.

 

[67Dylan]

I guarantee you'll be faster than running any cylinder head with your current cam.

Well isn't that the whole point of running a custom? I'll never run an off the shelf cam again... at least in my race cars.

 

[57fairlane]

I hate to say it, but "Super stock" or "Factory Stock" guys have more in the motor than some of us in the entire car.

But there are guys running 'stock' parts in NHRA Stock that will kick just about anything you can build in the butt. And they're running Ford heads, not even arftermarket iron heads.

I was going to do a (in NMRA events) factory stock car. Basically a 3200lbs
fox-body with a maximum of 311 inches and here are the permitted cylinder heads:

Permitted Cylinder Head List, Parts Number: These are the only permitted cylinder heads and part numbers for competition in this category. If your cylinder head is not on this list, it is prohibited.
1) Stock Ford OEM 5.0 HO Cast Iron Cylinder Heads. (*Deduct 250#)
2) FRPP/SVO GT-40 Cast Iron Cylinder Heads
3) FRPP/SVO GT-40P Cast Iron Cylinder Heads

Camshaft requirements:
Stock lobe 5.0 HO or 4.6L camshaft required. Specified duration, lift, and lobe separation required.
5.0 HO: Camshaft maximum lobe lift is .278”; Minimum lobe lift is .270. Maximum valve lift at the retainer not to exceed .480”.
Lobe duration is checked at the below specified lobe lifts.
Lift Maximum duration
.050” 211
.100” 179
.150” 148
.200” 115
Maximum lobe separation angle – 117 degrees
Minimum lobe separation angle – 115 degrees

And the intake requirements:
1.21c) PERMITTED INTAKE MANIFOLD LIST, PART NUMBERS:
If your intake manifold is not on this list, it is prohibited.
1) Stock OEM Mustang-specific 5.0 EFI Intake – Upper & Lower
5) Ford Explorer – Upper & Lower
6) SVT Cobra EFI – Upper & Lower, PN# M 9424 D51, M 9424 E51

If all I wanted to do was be competitive (lets say 3rd place), at all but 1 NMRA event this year I would at least have to run 12.0s consistently. So add it all up on the handy math calculator and I get for a weight of 3200# and a trap speed of 113, HP of ~360fwhp. If I wanted to win, Shawn Johnson/Jeff Schmell are running 11.70s @ 116, which in the calculator nets me ~390fwhp. Thats about where my 306, with ported Windsor Jr lites, custom cam with much bigger specs than stock, and full exhuast is running (factory stock only allows tubular "shorty" headers).

Tell me there isn't a lot of "hidden" money in these things . . .

I would have run total seal's gapless rings . . . $250
The lightest set of pistons I could afford . . . $600 and up
might as well throw in the lighest rotating assembly . . .
Coatings for piston top/rods/crank . . . $700
Custom cam . . . $350

So just because it has "stock" parts doesn't mean it did not cost more than your motor with aluminum heads and "bling" parts.

 

[67GTCOUPE]

Do yourself a HUGE favor..............contact Jay Allen at camshaftinnovations.

Jay can get you exactly the heads and cam you need.

He did my cam and got my canfield heads.........and my engine is UNREAL!

 

[1320stang]

I hate to say it, but "Super stock" or "Factory Stock" guys have more in the motor than some of us in the entire car.

Oh heck yeah, I don't know about it anymore, but in the mid/late 80's it cost just as much to run a Stock car as it did a Pro Stock car. I'm just saying that iron heads can be made to run good. But the whole deal is the combo you put together. Most guys on here don't need heads that flow 312 on the intake side @ .600 lift.

 

[fasttback]

Looks like there are some satisfied people with Canfields. So, I just finished up a detailed email message to Cam Master Jay at Camshaft Innovations.

Hopefully he will come through for me.