300hp Camaro....V6

[Gearbanger 101]

.....who are you talking to?

 

[xtweakerx]

i still dont get why people troll or post in forms about s197's if they dont have one.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

i still dont get why people troll or post in forms about s197's if they dont have one.

I'm sorry....I didn't realize it was completely impossible for someone to have an opinion or knowledge of the subject without actually owning the car? I mean....you obviously must own one of the new Camaro's talked about in the premis of this thread to have such and in depth opinion of it, right? Heaven forbid someone question the performance of the S197, or choose to view another brand/vehicle in a favorable light amongst some of you guys? Nose up attitudes like this remind me of Vette owners!?!?

And FYI....take a look at my title newb. It's my job to circulate the site....so mind you P's and Q's! .

 

[stangdude2000]

The V6 is rated at 26mpg. What is your GT rated at? IIRC, it's something like 23. So say you get 31 at 70mph. That's 8mpg over the rated number. Lets just be fair and say the V6 will get 8mpg over the rated number (probably closer to 5 but lets just be fair), the V6 will be getting 34mpg on the highway and will have 300hp and cost half of what it costs to insure our GT's.

I don't think gas prices will ruin it's debut. It is debuting at the perfect time for what it is now. Oil has been dropping for the past 5 trading days and gas is at 3.16 a gallon now (before taxes). In about a week we should see a little relief at the pump and with the Camaro coming out soon, that is good news for them.

Sticker price isn't much different than the Mustang, either. Maybe 2-3k more than what the comparable Mustangs.



I would have read everything you wrote, but the huge wall of text got in my way. All I got to reading was that you think it will be slow at the weight adn something about the SRT8 challenger being a 13.5 car with 425hp. The SRT8 300C runs consistent 12.9's bone stock. It was rated at 13.5. Put a tune on it with a CAI or something and it's a mid 12 second car.

Sorry to say this man, but despite normally agreeing with your posts and sharing your views, this is one just blows my mind with some outrageous points...

Our Cars are rated at 25 mpg highway, but most people do better. Hi-po V6's tend to be truer to their ratings, and often times are worse under real life driving conditions since they usually require operation in higher RPM ranges. Either way, no data has been released, and we won't know how it compares til they hit the streets.

Gas prices aren't even REMOTELY close to 3.16/gallon. The current average national price according to fuelgauge.com is 4.042/gallon for regular and $4.428 for premium. There has unquestionably been a shift in consumer preferences towards smaller cars with smaller engines. The nostalgia effect may not hurt it at the release, but if gas doesn't drop significantly and soon, it will hurt in the long run.

$2-3k doesn't seem like a lot, but thats a deal breaker to many people. Thats about another $50/month. Its also ~10% added on to the purchase price.

According to Car and Driver's review of the both the Challenger SRT8 and the 300C SRT8, they both ran 13.3 in the quarter. They may or may not be the best drivers, but using one source is the closest we can get to a "standard" test. Obviously there are other things to consider besides weight, horsepower, and torque - such as gearing, drivetrain losses (Camaro will have a manual), tires, and the suspension's ability to assist in the launch. Factoring all that makes it really tough to race on paper.

We also can't really say "just do this modification" to one car, because then you can say the same about any other and the whole arguement really loses its validity. Now, if you could do something as simple as changing the air filter and pick up 100 horsepower, that would be different, but thats not really the case for any of these cars.



For a reference point, Cadillac claims 0-60 in 5.9 seconds for the rwd CTS with the 304-hp version of the 3.6L engine. It comes in at just over 4000 lbs. It was tested by Motor Trend at 0-60 in 6.3 seconds and quarter mile in 14.8 seconds.

 

[Hoboattacker]

Sorry to say this man, but despite normally agreeing with your posts and sharing your views, this is one just blows my mind with some outrageous points...

Our Cars are rated at 25 mpg highway, but most people do better. Hi-po V6's tend to be truer to their ratings, and often times are worse under real life driving conditions since they usually require operation in higher RPM ranges. Either way, no data has been released, and we won't know how it compares til they hit the streets.

Agreed. It is all speculation and you may be very right. I think that if you figure out the best rpm range for the V6 you could improve on the gas mileage. But like you said, we wont know until it comes out.

Gas prices aren't even REMOTELY close to 3.16/gallon. The current average national price according to fuelgauge.com is 4.042/gallon for regular and $4.428 for premium. There has unquestionably been a shift in consumer preferences towards smaller cars with smaller engines. The nostalgia effect may not hurt it at the release, but if gas doesn't drop significantly and soon, it will hurt in the long run.
I was talking about on the commodities market. Gas closed at 3.03 today (View Oil, Gold and Copper Stock Market Trades, Streaming Charts Available Online- CNBC.com) You have to remember that there is usually a one and a half to two week lead time from when that price hits the pumps. And then that price is affected by federal and state taxes. So here in Louisiana we would be seeing $3.41 at the pump about (38 cents a gallon tax).

$2-3k doesn't seem like a lot, but thats a deal breaker to many people. Thats about another $50/month. Its also ~10% added on to the purchase price.

According to Car and Driver's review of the both the Challenger SRT8 and the 300C SRT8, they both ran 13.3 in the quarter. They may or may not be the best drivers, but using one source is the closest we can get to a "standard" test. Obviously there are other things to consider besides weight, horsepower, and torque - such as gearing, drivetrain losses (Camaro will have a manual), tires, and the suspension's ability to assist in the launch. Factoring all that makes it really tough to race on paper.
I was going off what a guy on a local forum here runs in his stock SRT8 300C. He's probably had more practice with launching and all of that, but either way they are low 13 second to high 12 second 4 door land yachts lol

We also can't really say "just do this modification" to one car, because then you can say the same about any other and the whole arguement really loses its validity. Now, if you could do something as simple as changing the air filter and pick up 100 horsepower, that would be different, but thats not really the case for any of these cars.
Agreed. I was just trying to make it easier to follow I guess. If a tune/cai or something does the same thing that it does for our cars, they are going to sick just mildly modded.


For a reference point, Cadillac claims 0-60 in 5.9 seconds for the rwd CTS with the 304-hp version of the 3.6L engine. It comes in at just over 4000 lbs. It was tested by Motor Trend at 0-60 in 6.3 seconds and quarter mile in 14.8 seconds.

My response is bolded and in red :SNSign:

 

[Hoboattacker]

I am sorry about the long text. I forget that the public schools have been dominated by the Politically Correct powers that be and the goal of the schools in the last 15 years or so has been to make everyone feel better about themselves and abolishing higher level of achevements because it might scar someone else emotionally who couldn't make it. If I bother to post again I will try to make my responses as short as possible and try not to fluff them with any factual data or personal input. I believe what I see and not what I read in mags like C&D, ect. Might I suggest watching the Fast and the Furious movies since they are about a accurate as most car mage these days. To make anyone here feel better about their precious opinions about why their cars are better than ours here goes: Your are right. You are always right about everything. We are are idiots for doubting you in anyway. Who's a good boy...who's a good boy (said in a motherly baby talk tone). Feel better now???

If that's aimed at me...uh ok. I'm the most non-politically correct person you would ever meet. I could care less what anybody thinks about me, my speech, how I say things, who I like or don't like, or who I think "deserves" something. I just said that your huge wall of text was hard to read. Learn to use paragraphs. I'm pretty sure they taught that way back in the day when you had to walk uphill to school both ways through 5 feet of snow. And just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I think I know everything...

 

[fastback79]

The mustang looked better than the camaro back then and it still looks better now. AS a former camaro owner, I was always envied the fact that Ford had a MUCH bigger aftermarket than the camaro. They will always have a bigger aftermarket. Oh yeah, guys like Shelby, Saleen and Roushe seem to prefer Ford also. I predict the camaro will last a couple years and then GM will kill it again just as they did the GTO and F-body a few years ago. With the camaro, you are buying a car, with the Mustang you are buying a lifestyle. I know of several Mustang clubs in my area while haven't heard of one camaro club. I'll keep my 73 stingray but it will have a Pony next to it soon not a camaro.

 

[UrbanRedneck]

You and me both. I have been itching to see one in person and absolutely obliterate it. I just want to make that guy feel like he wasted 45-50k on a car that got beat by a "lowly" Mustang

I'm not so sure he would care. I doubt that he bought his Challanger to be the fastest car on the road or to specifically beat "lowly" mustangs. At least I hope not. If I bought a Challanger it'd be because I thought it was a cool car that I'd enjoy driving, regardless of who beats me.

I can use myself as an example of that. I have had my ass kicked many times in my Mustang, that doesn't make me regret buying it over whatever other car it was that beat me. I bought it because it is the car I wanted. If I was buying a car strictly for performance, it would not have been a Mustang.

To the people comparing aftermarkets... The aftermarket for Camaros/Firebirds is as big as, if not bigger than, the aftermarket for Mustangs... I'd say they are probably about the same.

Sometimes people just have way too much brand loyalty. I guess I used to be like that too, untill I realised how ignorant it is. Right now I have a Ford and a Mopar. My brother has a Chevy and a Caddillac. My other brother and both of my parents have Mopars, and my fionce has a Ford but will buy a new Camaro when they come out. We all get along JUSSST fine. I also have no problem admitting that my brother's bolt on Camaro will mop the floor with my Mustang all day long. It doesn't make me regret buying a Mustang though, I love my car regardless. I now have pretty much no brand loyalty. Like I said, I used to, but I learned better. I can't now anyway, how can a Mopar guy claim Ford loyalty? Or how could a Ford guy have a Dodge? So I guess I could be a Fomopar guy, but I love plenty of Chevys too. And AMCs. And Porsches. I respect any car that can perform, and I like any car that appeals to me for whatever reason, be it looks, performance, or other, no matter who makes it. I'm not a big fan of Japanese imports, but I'll give them props when deserve it as well. Maybe try living without brand loyalty sometime, I think you'll find it makes more sense. And maybe you'll have more friends too.

I'm not going to run out and buy a Camaro or a Challanger. I'd love to own either of the two in addition to my Mustang. But I love my Mustang, I don't regret buying it at all. And the first time a Challanger wastes me at a light, I'm just gonna think "wow that was a cool car". I'm not going to get my panties in a bundle and whine about it on the internet, nor am I going to sit there and make excuses for why it has more power than me or how he isn't cool because his car costs more and he didn't buy a "lifestyle". So F-ing what, I love my car and I'm sure he loves his. And I wouldn't mind stopping and taking a look at it either.

Edit: One last thing just to clarify, the S197 was rated at 25 MPG in 2005-2007. The new EPA ratings put 08 and newer GTs at 23 MPG, so that's where you should base your comparisons. But in any event, I wouldn't be surprised if the V8 Camaro got better mileage. V8 cars usually do get better mileage than V6s, and GMs V8s kick ass in fuel economy. Ok, carry on.

 

[05wolfkiller]

its still a camaro, still ugly, and still a POS. Woo it's faster, if i worried about it being faster, then i'd be driving a ford gt, not a mustang. The only good camaro they've ever made was gen 1's. Say what you will about catfish car, but a mustang guy will pick up a dead sexy girl before a catfish freak, so good luck driving your POS's! if you beat me, then good I say, for it will only fuel your lonely chronic masturbation and allow you to live just a little bit longer

yeah, plus the fact that Pee Wee Herman also wears bow ties. And we all know where his career ended
and Steve Erkel too!!!!

 

[Cory281]

No it isn't. My friend has a 2002 Accord and if he isn't getting 32mpg on the highway he is pissed. He gets 25mpg or more in the city. My girlfriends Nissan Sentra gets 29mpg in the city on a regular basis (that's 11 more miles to the gallon than my car gets on the highway )[/QUOTE]

And is this a V6 Accord? Because my sisters and moms don't get that good.

 

[ranger04]

There's no such thing as too much brand loyality, thats one of the problems with the world today. Being loyal is a good trait to have. Ford motor company feed and clothed me as a youth, paid for my schooling, bought my toy's and took care of our family. Ford is still providing a good retirement for my father to this day and saves me money every time I buy a new car. I grew up ford and will die ford. I'm loyal to alot of things, like heinz ketchup, A1 steak sauce, winchester rifles, campbells soup, motorcraft spark plugs, mobil 1 oil and so on. Loyality is a good thing and no one should feel bad for being loyal. I wouldn't hit a dog in the butt with a chevy or a dodge and I hate japanese cars. I buy american when ever and where ever I can. I'm loyal to God, family and country and then ford fits in there somewhere. Ford has been nothing but good to me, has never left me walking. I see some of you mustang owners are flavor of the month people and others of us are diehard ford people and mustang lovers. For you flaver of the month crowd, there may be a dodge or chevy in your future, but for us blue oval folk, we will live and die by the mustang.

 

[Hoboattacker]

And is this a V6 Accord? Because my sisters and moms don't get that good.

No. I should of mentioned that when I said that. It's a 4cyl Accord with a 5 speed manual. Sorry 'bout that confusion

 

[m4a1mustang]

There's no such thing as too much brand loyality, thats one of the problems with the world today. Being loyal is a good trait to have. Ford motor company feed and clothed me as a youth, paid for my schooling, bought my toy's and took care of our family. Ford is still providing a good retirement for my father to this day and saves me money every time I buy a new car. I grew up ford and will die ford. I'm loyal to alot of things, like heinz ketchup, A1 steak sauce, winchester rifles, campbells soup, motorcraft spark plugs, mobil 1 oil and so on. Loyality is a good thing and no one should feel bad for being loyal. I wouldn't hit a dog in the butt with a chevy or a dodge and I hate japanese cars. I buy american when ever and where ever I can. I'm loyal to God, family and country and then ford fits in there somewhere. Ford has been nothing but good to me, has never left me walking. I see some of you mustang owners are flavor of the month people and others of us are diehard ford people and mustang lovers. For you flaver of the month crowd, there may be a dodge or chevy in your future, but for us blue oval folk, we will live and die by the mustang.

There certainly isn't anything wrong with being loyal, but some people do take it to extremes.

If Ford were to start building totally crap vehicles and you continued to buy them out of loyalty... well, there's something wrong with that. As long as they're turning out competitive vehicles that fulfill your needs as a consumer then loyalty to the brand is fine.

But if they start building cars that die after six months of operation and are riddled with other problems yet you remain loyal... I think I'd wonder if you were right in the head.

 

[stangdude2000]

Edit: One last thing just to clarify, the S197 was rated at 25 MPG in 2005-2007. The new EPA ratings put 08 and newer GTs at 23 MPG, so that's where you should base your comparisons. But in any event, I wouldn't be surprised if the V8 Camaro got better mileage. V8 cars usually do get better mileage than V6s, and GMs V8s kick ass in fuel economy. Ok, carry on.

Sorry, thats wrong. They used to be 18/25, but now my 08 was rated at 15/25. I have gotten up to 28 mpg @75-80, and over 30 at 60.

 

[UrbanRedneck]

Sorry, thats wrong. They used to be 18/25, but now my 08 was rated at 15/25. I have gotten up to 28 mpg @75-80, and over 30 at 60.

That's odd, because MY 08 is rated at 15/23. I also have gotten significantly better than that, I was only talking about ratings, because people were comparing their cars actual MPG to the Camaros rated MPG, which is apples to oranges. I was just stating the rating for even comparison.

 

[shooterm1]

How great is the Commaro Comrade?

gosh, I'd rather hear about Bin Ladens good night sleep or how well Fidel Castro is recovering than see this stuff here celebrating Chevy's new prized pig again.

View attachment 310007

 

[UrbanRedneck]

There's no such thing as too much brand loyality, thats one of the problems with the world today. Being loyal is a good trait to have. Ford motor company feed and clothed me as a youth, paid for my schooling, bought my toy's and took care of our family. Ford is still providing a good retirement for my father to this day and saves me money every time I buy a new car. I grew up ford and will die ford. I'm loyal to alot of things, like heinz ketchup, A1 steak sauce, winchester rifles, campbells soup, motorcraft spark plugs, mobil 1 oil and so on. Loyality is a good thing and no one should feel bad for being loyal. I wouldn't hit a dog in the butt with a chevy or a dodge and I hate japanese cars. I buy american when ever and where ever I can. I'm loyal to God, family and country and then ford fits in there somewhere. Ford has been nothing but good to me, has never left me walking. I see some of you mustang owners are flavor of the month people and others of us are diehard ford people and mustang lovers. For you flaver of the month crowd, there may be a dodge or chevy in your future, but for us blue oval folk, we will live and die by the mustang.

Well your loyalty is for different reasons. I never had Ford put food on my table, and I have had just as many problems with Fords as any other vehicle. The only real loyalty I will say is that I would never, ever, ever buy a car that is not domestic. But other than that, when I say some people take brand loyalty too far I mean the people that basically have the attitude that anything that isn't a Ford (or whatever other make) is a piece of **** and isn't worthy of being on the road with you. You can buy all the Fords you want and can love Ford as much as you want, but to deny the fact that other companies make cars that are just as good, or are impressive in some respect, and to think that anything else is inferior to you (especially when you have to make up excuses on why that car will spank you) is just close minded.

 

[LV51FER]

Hey, you guys are hilarious. All this GM and Ford loyalty is clearly ingrained but the whole point of a market economy is you buy the best car you possibly can for the least money.

Instead of bitching about cars, you should all be ****-a-hoop that the US is producing a whole range of muscle cars at a time when Europe and Japan are dishing up heavier and more expensive and ever more complicated cars with no character at all. Dull, dull, dull and a lot of you whine because you have a whole array of muscle cars to choose from?

I think the Camaro looks fantastic. It will sell as well or as badly as the Mustang does in this economic climate. I love the S197 but would certainly consider a Camaro as well and if I was less flush, a better V6 would be a good alternative.

Anything that sells and keeps GM and Ford out of economic disaster has to be a good thing so quit competing and celebrate the fact that these could be the last muscle cars you'll ever see and "you never had it so good".

 

[ranger04]

Ford against chevy is part of the fun, it's the way it's allways been and will continue to be. You don't have to make excusses for being beat by another brand, cause no matter how fast you are, there's allways someone faster, thats just the way it is. Spankings are just part of racing no matter what you drive. How fun would it be if there was only fords to race against or just chevy, the competion is what makes it fun. Ford would be nothing without chevy and the same with chevy. We need each other to make this thing work ha ha. I'm a ford man, but value my chevy and dodge budies as they do me. It's the glue that holds the fun of racing together. You win some and you loose some, but in the end, were still all friends and try harder next time, it's what makes the world go around.

 

[Hoboattacker]

Hey, you guys are hilarious. All this GM and Ford loyalty is clearly ingrained but the whole point of a market economy is you buy the best car you possibly can for the least money.

Instead of bitching about cars, you should all be ****-a-hoop that the US is producing a whole range of muscle cars at a time when Europe and Japan are dishing up heavier and more expensive and ever more complicated cars with no character at all. Dull, dull, dull and a lot of you whine because you have a whole array of muscle cars to choose from?

I think the Camaro looks fantastic. It will sell as well or as badly as the Mustang does in this economic climate. I love the S197 but would certainly consider a Camaro as well and if I was less flush, a better V6 would be a good alternative.

Anything that sells and keeps GM and Ford out of economic disaster has to be a good thing so quit competing and celebrate the fact that these could be the last muscle cars you'll ever see and "you never had it so good".

Oh I agree with you 100% but like somebody said, it's part of the fun to have the FvC debate since nobody ever wins haha. But all I know is that the competition will be good for the Mustang and I can't wait to race a new Camaro SS or SRT8 Challenger...until they start modding...then I'll need to order up a new shortblock