5.0 vs LS1

[Black Stampede]

Aside from the blower debate, I don't know why anyone would run an 800HP car on the streets. Now I am thinking totally logical of course.. which is not how I built my car, but being close to 500rwhp, my car driveability/street manners sucks (to me but prolly ok to many of you)..now granted I am NA but still...I am at 60 in 4 seconds...where am I going to run it?

I would probably leave your car out of the comparison since there are tons of 500rwhp cars that run like stock. Just like there are 700 rwhp cars that do. Not all motor of course. Rio95 for example, turbo car around 525 rwhp drives like a stock car unless you get on it. There are many very high horsepower cars that retain stock like driveability unless you get on it. Why would anyone NEED that much power? Well obviously no one NEEDS it. No one needs 400 rwhp. An 800horsepower car used only on the street is probably an ego car. But being around plenty of mid 500 rwhp cars over the years I can honestly say I think 600 rwhp is no big deal on the street especially with a good tune.

 

[BK_CAULEY]

that strut tower bar looks awefully funny as well.

 

[revhead347]

Why would you need 800rwhp? That's a stupid question. To go out to the hole on a friday night and make money of course.

Kurt

 

[nmcgrawj]

Now that's just WRONG! I can tolerate a LSx GT/LX/V-6/etc., but a 03/04 Cobra???


I've been looking into building a V-8 Miata for the last couple years, and I'm starting to lean towards a LSx motor. Small engine, big power N/A, and good fuel economy FTW. I was looking at the flyin' miata site yesterday and one of their 350-400hp LS1(6?) cars got 34mpg on the highway. I doubt I could build a 5.0/347 with 400hp, 34mpg, and drives like stock.

That project will probably never happen because I'd have to sell my stang to fund it.


I'm curious to see how the new 5.0 "Coyote" engine will perform. Supposedly it puts out close to 400hp with fuel economy similar to the 4.6, and looks like it's physically smaller/lighter than the 4.6 as well.

haha yea, i would have a hard time cutting up/swappin the motor out of any new car....especially one as expensive as an 03/04 cobra. I'd rather just buy a 99+ V6 shell.


BESIDES, look at the interior of that car....theres not much thats stock in there. Would be interesting to see the story line of it.

 

[Pokageek]

I would probably leave your car out of the comparison since there are tons of 500rwhp cars that run like stock. Just like there are 700 rwhp cars that do. Not all motor of course. Rio95 for example, turbo car around 525 rwhp drives like a stock car unless you get on it. There are many very high horsepower cars that retain stock like driveability unless you get on it. Why would anyone NEED that much power? Well obviously no one NEEDS it. No one needs 400 rwhp. An 800horsepower car used only on the street is probably an ego car. But being around plenty of mid 500 rwhp cars over the years I can honestly say I think 600 rwhp is no big deal on the street especially with a good tune.

Yep. But still, its sooo easy to get a ticket...between easy to spin the tars, easy to get up to speed, and temptation and loudness...yes its all relative and all depends on the setup. NA especially tho, when you pull up next to the copper and he hears that, well...he's waiting for you.

 

[Black Stampede]

Yep. But still, its sooo easy to get a ticket...between easy to spin the tars, easy to get up to speed, and temptation and loudness...yes its all relative and all depends on the setup. NA especially tho, when you pull up next to the copper and he hears that, well...he's waiting for you.

All very true. Not to mention going past stock block limitations is a whole new ball game in regards to money. In the past I always thought when I could afford it I would get a built block yada yada crank up the boost and try and make 700 rwhp, but these days I don't really care. 500 rwhp is just fine with me and between a block, fuel system, then upgraded heads cam intake, which you might as well do if you are spending all that money anyways, it's just not worth it. Especially if you aren't an avid drag racer.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Considering a Mach One costs about $10K less to start, that's a huge head start right there. And there are plenty of centrifugal blower stangs putting 800hp to the wheels running around on the streets. And who cares what the torque is off idle. If you are on street tires, you're going to spin them anyway. If you are running a drag radial or a slick, you're going to be launching at at least 4000 rpms. I think the 03'/04' Cobra thing is just a fad. People buy them because they think they are really cool cars. Then they get modifcation crazy. I'm saying if you want a fast modular car, you're better off starting with a Mach One, or a 99'/01' Cobra. I had a friend who had an 04' Cobra. He sold his 10 second 97' Cobra to buy it. He said he was lucky to get 16mpg in it, and he ending up selling it because the payments were so high he couldn't afford to mod it anyway. I had another friend, who at the same time paid cash for an 01' Cobra, put a ProCharger on it, and Meth Injection, and ran 10.40s in it. No comparison in my book.

Kurt

So what…for 10k you think all you’re getting is a blower and a namesake?

Try duplicating it with a Mach 1 for less than 10K. I guarantee you can’t! Supercharged, forged short block, heavy duty fuel system, T56, IRS….not to mention probably the best looking factory Mustang to roll off the assembly line in the nearly 35-years prior to it. Although I will admit, looks are subjective but I think the majority would agree. As far as fuel economy goes, I guess that all depends on how you drive them. Most Cobra owners I know knock down mid-20’s all day long with their cars. You start pushing the loud pedal to feel the boost and you’re gonna pay for it. Same goes for any car. Hell, my 4,000lb Automatic equipped Cougar gets a respectable 25mpg on the highway and it boasts a similar set up to the Cobra.

.....and if we’re going to split hairs here, as nice as they are, what’s a Mach 1 really but a gussied up GT with a slightly revised version of an early Cobra 4V, Cobra brakes and a semi functional ram air hood? They’re not overly special beyond that by comparison?

In any case, I didn’t say there weren’t 800hp Centrifugal/Turbo blown cars running the street, but none of them display anywhere close to the street manners of a Positive Displacement blown car. And you telling me you don’t care about low end torque tells me you’ve never driven or owned a car that’s made a lot of it. Nothing beats the big block like rush down low of a Positive Displacement blown engine. And there’s nothing more satisfying that being able to walk most cars on the road without having to drop 2-gears. Hell, I pull on most cars even going uphill with my overdrive on. I wouldn’t trade it for all of the turbo whistle in the world!

I t really all depends on what you’re going for. If you want a strait line warrior meant to run from point A to point B as quickly as possible, then go ahead and buy yourself a GT and blow it with a big centrifugal. Its cheaper, its simple and effective. No, it won’t handle, stop, or ride nearly as well and you’re going to be on borrowed time with your drive and power train unless you sink some serious coin into the fuel system, short block,trans and clutch but hey….Its fast, right? You think '03-'04 Cobra's are nothing special and easily duplicatable...then by all means start listing off parts and prices (and don't forget the time and labor) and see what your grand total at the end is by comparison?

If you want a perfect balance between high power, great handling, superior comfort and all around excellent performance you’ll not find anything short of an S197 that will match it. You may call if a fad, but I can guarantee you that 99% of the GT owners out there would have opted for the Cobra if it was within their price range. I know I certainly would have!

 

[Adam95GT]

Ill take an Eaton or KB any day over a centrifugal

 

[Stopsign32v]

Ill take an Eaton or KB any day over a centrifugal

Ummm IDK about the Eaton part but I agree with you on the KB. Give me a Whipple or a KB on a 03 Cobra over a Procharger or anything else. I'd really just rather have a big turbo and a 100 shot of nitrous.

 

[Stopsign32v]

.....and if we’re going to split hairs here, as nice as they are, what’s a Mach 1 really but a gussied up GT with a slightly revised version of an early Cobra 4V, Cobra brakes and a semi functional ram air hood? They’re not overly special beyond that by comparison?

Ummmm your posts made sense up until that point.

GT's stock run low 14's on average. Mach 1's can run low 13's stock. With nothing but gears a Mach 1 can run 12's. A Mach 1 with a blower and 8psi of boost can make over 450rwhp. A GT with 8psi of boost can make what.....300rwhp?

GT's with their 2v SOHC motors are a joke. Mach 1's a much much much much better both inside and out.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Ummm IDK about the Eaton part but I agree with you on the KB. Give me a Whipple or a KB on a 03 Cobra over a Procharger or anything else. I'd really just rather have a big turbo and a 100 shot of nitrous.

Does that include the TVS series as well?

Ummmm your posts made sense up until that point.

GT's stock run low 14's on average. Mach 1's can run low 13's stock. With nothing but gears a Mach 1 can run 12's. A Mach 1 with a blower and 8psi of boost can make over 450rwhp. A GT with 8psi of boost can make what.....300rwhp?

GT's with their 2v SOHC motors are a joke. Mach 1's a much much much much better both inside and out.

So...exactly what part of my post confused you?

Now you're quoting power figures from a blown GT and a blown Mach 1? Based on your response, I’d say that you yet again completely missed the point.

And a Mach 1 making 450rwhp at only 8psi? Not likely. At least not without bolt-ons and race gas or water meth injection to keep it out of detonation. And you do realize that whatever the Mach 1 engine is capable of putting out, the Cobra is going to match it, right? That slight compression advantage the Mach 1 has is only going to be good for a hand full of horsepower and torque in the bottom end, but you just end up pulling it out again up top. The only real difference between how they respond to power, is that once you push that stock Mach 1 engine much past those levels, you're picking up parts of the bottom end all over the ground and crying in your beer. All this while the Cobra is still singing away happy as a clam and capable of pushing 20+psi and 800-1,000hp through the stock long block.

Besides, quoting boost figures is frivolous. Seeing 8psi through a boost gauge through the top end of a 2V engine is nowhere near the same volume of air when seeing the same measurement through the top end of the 4V engine. Hell, boost figures translated from a Centrifugal and a Positive Displacement blower won’t even read the same. Do I need to clarify that for you as well, or will you concede that point?

Speaking of point...what was yours again? You know, the more and more you attempt to rebut my posts, the more and more you look like you’re blowing smoke to the rest of us.





...and please, show me a Mach 1 running 12's with just a gear change. Accompany it with a host of bolt ons and some major weight reduction perhaps, but just a swap to a set of 4.56's or 5.14's alone is going to cut it. I don't care how aggressive you are behind the wheel.

 

[Stopsign32v]

So...exactly what part of my post confused you?

None of it confused me. I said it didn't make sense. As in the post was idiotic. Comparing a GT to a Mach1 is like comparing a Mach1 to a Cobra. You are going in circles here. You say the Cobra is alot better than the Mach1 however you say the Mach1 isn't much better than a GT. And I am taking it you are not just talking about performance figures since you brought up the look of the Cobra.

Now you're quoting power figures from a blown GT and a blown Mach 1? Based on your response, I’d say that you yet again completely missed the point.

Missed what point? The fact that we were talking about making a fast car and the argument of would you use a Mach1 or a Cobra? Well I figured we would keep that debate and just talk about Mach1 vs GT for a second. The Mach1s motor (especially heads) flow so much better than the GT so when you put on a Centri blower like most do it just is hard to not make power with them.

And a Mach 1 making 450rwhp at only 8psi? Not likely. At least not without bolt-ons and race gas or water meth injection to keep it out of detonation.

So wait, here are you saying that a Mach1 motor cannot take 8psi of boost before it will blow a hole in a piston or snap a rod or are you saying that it cannot make those numbers with that little of boost? Have to be more clear, I'm not as smart as you.

And you do realize that whatever the Mach 1 engine is capable of putting out, the Cobra is going to match it, right? That slight compression advantage the Mach 1 has is only going to be good for a hand full of horsepower and torque in the bottom end, but you just end up pulling it out again up top.

Wait now, I thought we were talking about the Mach1 vs the GT. Now you are arguing with me about the Cobra vs the Mach1? Well still you are wrong. The 10.1:1 compression the Mach1 has over the Cobra's 8.5:1 is a HUGE difference and will allow the Mach1 to make more power everywhere given the Mach1 does not snap a rod.

The only real difference between how they respond to power, is that once you push that stock Mach 1 engine much past those levels, you're picking up parts of the bottom end all over the ground and crying in your beer. All this while the Cobra is still singing away happy as a clam and capable of pushing 20+psi and 800-1,000hp through the stock long block.

Again, we are talking Mach1 vs GT. Not Cobra. Stay focused!!!!!

Besides, quoting boost figures is frivolous. Seeing 8psi through a boost gauge through the top end of a 2V engine is nowhere near the same volume of air when seeing the same measurement through the top end of the 4V engine. Hell, boost figures translated from a Centrifugal and a Positive Displacement blower won’t even read the same. Do I need to clarify that for you as well, or will you concede that point?

Easy there skipper. You saying this is funny seeing as how above in your post you say that there is no way a Mach1 can make 450rwhp with 8psi of boost. 8psi of boost from a P1SC will not be the same amount as 8psi of boost through a D1.

But yes, I know that the GT is more restrictive and that boost is just a measurement of that. blah blah blah....I've had a blown 4v DOHC motor and I've bad a boosted GT. Have you?

Anyways back on topic, without confusing you what I was getting at was a GT with a P1SC with a 8psi pulley will make way less power than a Mach1 with a P1SC and a 8psi pulley. I apologize, I figured you would have read between the lines.

Speaking of point...what was yours again? You know, the more and more you attempt to rebut my posts, the more and more you look like you’re blowing smoke to the rest of us.

My point? Hell I said it....

GT's with their 2v SOHC motors are a joke. Mach 1's a much much much much better both inside and out.

That was in response to your crazy statement of the Mach1 is just a pretty GT.

...and please, show me a Mach 1 running 12's with just a gear change. Accompany it with a host of bolt ons and some major weight reduction perhaps, but just a swap to a set of 4.56's or 5.14's alone is going to cut it. I don't care how aggressive you are behind the wheel.

LOL how little you know...I'm not going to sit here and search and search to make you believe that a Mach1 with gears will run 12's. I've personally proven that it can be done. In my 99 Cobra with 255 Firestone tires and 4.10 gears I ran 13.1@106mph and a Mach1 is a hell of alot faster than a 99 Cobra. But have I ran a Mach1 at the track? Yes infact I have. Here is a video of me running a Mach1 with nothing but a catback and intake to a 13.2 with a 2.0 ****ty 60' (and I'm not the best driver by a long shot! ). If you think a Mach1 with 4.30 or 4.56 gears will not run 12's then you simply do not know what you are talking about.

View attachment 254009

Oh and before you say "It had a intake and a catback!!!" that same car in the heat I ran 13.2 again when it had nothing at all except a catback. Still had the stock paper filter and even the snorkle in the car. Reason I just ran 13.2 both times is because that car is not mine and I had little seat time in it. Had I had another run or two it would have been a 12 second car with nothing but a catback.

 

[revhead347]

And you telling me you don’t care about low end torque tells me you’ve never driven or owned a car that’s made a lot of it. Nothing beats the big block like rush down low of a Positive Displacement blown engine.

Hold your horses there sonny. My car puts 630+ ft lbs of torque to the wheels as soon as the bottle comes on at 3000rpms. I know exactly what's better than the rush of a positive displacement blower. It's called nitrous. Nothing hits harder or comes on faster than the giggle gas. If you want independent rear suspension, you can buy a 99' Cobra instead of a Mach 1, if that's your thing. They are both about the same price. There are only mild differences in the fuel systems between the non blower Cobras, and the blown models. I don't think you have a full understanding of how expensive it is to mod one of those 03/04 Cobras. It looks so easy, because generally the people who do it have a lot of money to start with. This is an SN95 forum. Our cars are only worth like $4K. Most of the 03/04 Cobras you see and read about that make all that power were bought by people who had enough dough to drop $30K in the first place. So yeah, they probably had a good amount of capital to mod them. I've known quite a few people who bought 03/04 Cobras, and then they realized how really expensive it is to do anything to those cars.

Kurt

 

[Gearbanger 101]

None of it confused me. I said it didn't make sense. As in the post was idiotic. Comparing a GT to a Mach1 is like comparing a Mach1 to a Cobra. You are going in circles here. You say the Cobra is alot better than the Mach1 however you say the Mach1 isn't much better than a GT. And I am taking it you are not just talking about performance figures since you brought up the look of the Cobra.

Hey, you're the one who implied that The Mach 1 was every bit the car the Cobra was and more so when a blower was added. All while choosing to ignore the cold hard facts I laid out in front of you. I’m still waiting for you to compile that parts list that turns the Mach 1 into the Cobra’s superior. As for my question, I've asked it twice now with little more than misdirect from you, so I'll ask a third time and try to answer it directly this time without the song and dance….Aside from the 4V engine and Cobra brakes, how much different mechanically is the Mach 1 from a GT? It's really not that hard to answer. No song and dance about quarter mile times, blah, blah, blah. Just answer the question. Mechanical differences....what are the....go!!!

Missed what point? The fact that we were talking about making a fast car and the argument of would you use a Mach1 or a Cobra? Well I figured we would keep that debate and just talk about Mach1 vs GT for a second. The Mach1s motor (especially heads) flow so much better than the GT so when you put on a Centri blower like most do it just is hard to not make power with them.

So what you're basically saying is since you've got nothing to say in defense of our Cobra vs Mach 1 discussion, you’re going to now pull the bait and switch and focus your argument on the Mach 1 vs GT? Sorry to disappoint you pal, but I’m well aware that a Mach 1 will walk a GT and will continue to do so exponentially as modifications are added. So again I ask you….what’s your point? scratch:

So wait, here are you saying that a Mach1 motor cannot take 8psi of boost before it will blow a hole in a piston or snap a rod or are you saying that it cannot make those numbers with that little of boost? Have to be more clear, I'm not as smart as you.

I’m saying the Mach 1, bone stock out the door with boost alone will not see 450rwhp without the aid of race fuel/water methanol and/or bolt ons to support it. Making it on the dyno with a tank full of 100-octane and a pile of timing with no spark retard is one thing. Keeping it alive on the street in that state of tune is another. Anyone can build a dyno queen man.

Wait now, I thought we were talking about the Mach1 vs the GT. Now you are arguing with me about the Cobra vs. the Mach1? Well still you are wrong. The 10.1:1 compression the Mach1 has over the Cobra's 8.5:1 is a HUGE difference and will allow the Mach1 to make more power everywhere given the Mach1 does not snap a rod.

Try to keep up with the conversation. We were talking Cobra vs. Mach 1. You’re the guy who chose to flip flop to the 2V GT engine when you couldn’t formulate and answer for my previous question. And yes, I’ve seen enough boosted high compression engines to know that at a measly 8psi, that point and a half of compression the Mach engine has over the GT translates to all of about 10hp/tq. Nothing to write home about. And like I said, what it gains down in the lower regions of the power band, is looses up top and under load because you do in fact have to pull timing out of the top end to ward off detonation. Your snapping a rod comment just proves my point. You’re the kind of guy who’ll blow up an engine on the dyno just to make number aren’t you? Parts guys must love you?

Again, we are talking Mach1 vs GT. Not Cobra. Stay focused!!!!!

Is that what we were talking about??? You might want to go back and reread the posts again? Last I remember, this was ’03-’04 Cobra vs Mach 1 and you answered none of my questions. To be perfectly honest, I’m trying to figure out if you’re a Manic Depressive, with a split personality and A.D.D., or just a typical Neo Conservative at this point? The way you misdirect and shuffle around the question to avoid giving an answering because it doesn't fit your argument kind of suggests as much and quite frankly you're displaying character traits for both?

Easy there skipper. You saying this is funny seeing as how above in your post you say that there is no way a Mach1 can make 450rwhp with 8psi of boost. 8psi of boost from a P1SC will not be the same amount as 8psi of boost through a D1.

That statement makes no sense. Seeing 8psi at the manifold with both blowers is the same amount of boost. The term (psi) means pounds per square inch and if you're seeing 8 pounds per square inch of restriction at the manifold with both blowers with no other changes, then they're delivering roughly the same volume of airflow to the engine. The way each blower delivers its airflow, by changing the rate at which the engine see’s said pressure, or the temperature at which it sees said volume of air may change, but if its reading 8psi of restriction, then its reading 8psi or restriction. Unless you make additional changes to the blower ratio, inlet or exhaust side of the engine, or drastic changes in discharge temperatures of the blower, you’re not going to dramatically change the amount of boost your seeing one way or another.

But yes, I know that the GT is more restrictive and that boost is just a measurement of that. blah blah blah....I've had a blown 4v DOHC motor and I've bad a boosted GT. Have you?

Never had a blown 4V, but I do own a boosted 2V. What’s that supposed to prove? I also own a Sony Cyber-shot…but that doesn’t mean I’m an expert on Digital Camera’s either.

Anyways back on topic, without confusing you what I was getting at was a GT with a P1SC with a 8psi pulley will make way less power than a Mach1 with a P1SC and a 8psi pulley. I apologize, I figured you would have read between the lines.

I’m quite sure I implied that to you when I mentioned the flow capabilities of the 2V top end, compared to the 4V top end. Hence my tangent about volumetric efficiency between the two engines. Its quite simple. The head, cam and intake profiles of the Mach 1 top end breaths better thatn that of the 2V, so it’s able to utilize a higher volume of airflow before backing up the manifold pressure to 8psi on the gauge when comparing the two.

It doesn’t seem to be I that is confused here. You’re still quoting things in terms of boost. The size of pulley a blower might use to see 8spi on a GT will use will be different in comparison to the size of the pulley that same blower would use to see the same amount of restriction on a Mach 1.

I’m sure we’re moving along the same lines here, despite how each of us is explaining it.

My point? Hell I said it....

You certainly made some points…even if most of them had nothing to do with what we were talking about.

That was in response to your crazy statement of the Mach1 is just a pretty GT.

I made no such remark. My point was in response to your statement implying that for the 10K price difference, you could duplicate all of the parts, performance and durability of the ’03-’04 Cobra by simply starting with a Mach 1 as your base vehicle and sinking the difference into the car. I layed out a rough ballpark of the parts and cost of said needed parts that would be required to do so, blowing your 10K budget all to hell and still leaving you short, then invited you to do the same if you didn’t want to take my word for it (…which you never did BTW).

I then compared the two cars to one and other and stated the Mach 1 was mechanically closer to a Mustang GT (save for the engine and brakes) than it was to the ’03-’04 Cobra.

…which is where you completely missed the point and started going off on some sort of Mach 1 vs GT comparison.

Are we all caught up yet?

LOL how little you know...I'm not going to sit here and search and search to make you believe that a Mach1 with gears will run 12's. I've personally proven that it can be done. In my 99 Cobra with 255 Firestone tires and 4.10 gears I ran 13.1@106mph and a Mach1 is a hell of alot faster than a 99 Cobra. But have I ran a Mach1 at the track? Yes infact I have. Here is a video of me running a Mach1 with nothing but a catback and intake to a 13.2 with a 2.0 ****ty 60' (and I'm not the best driver by a long shot! ). If you think a Mach1 with 4.30 or 4.56 gears will not run 12's then you simply do not know what you are talking about.

Sorry, but 13.23 isn’t 12’s and a Cat Back and intake mods isn’t stock. Nice try though. You got close.

Oh and before you say "It had a intake and a catback!!!" that same car in the heat I ran 13.2 again when it had nothing at all except a catback. Still had the stock paper filter and even the snorkle in the car. Reason I just ran 13.2 both times is because that car is not mine and I had little seat time in it. Had I had another run or two it would have been a 12 second car with nothing but a catback.

See above.

 

[Stopsign32v]

What the hell are you talking about? When did I say the Mach 1 was better than a 03-04 Cobra?

 

[Stopsign32v]

Gearbanger 101 you have alot alot alot to learn son. You simply twist words around until its what you want to hear. Such as this...

Sorry, but 13.23 isn’t 12’s and a Cat Back and intake mods isn’t stock. Nice try though. You got close.

No one said a Mach 1 would run 12's stock you moron.

 

[Stopsign32v]

Hold your horses there sonny. My car puts 630+ ft lbs of torque to the wheels as soon as the bottle comes on at 3000rpms. I know exactly what's better than the rush of a positive displacement blower. It's called nitrous. Nothing hits harder or comes on faster than the giggle gas. If you want independent rear suspension, you can buy a 99' Cobra instead of a Mach 1, if that's your thing. They are both about the same price. There are only mild differences in the fuel systems between the non blower Cobras, and the blown models. I don't think you have a full understanding of how expensive it is to mod one of those 03/04 Cobras. It looks so easy, because generally the people who do it have a lot of money to start with. This is an SN95 forum. Our cars are only worth like $4K. Most of the 03/04 Cobras you see and read about that make all that power were bought by people who had enough dough to drop $30K in the first place. So yeah, they probably had a good amount of capital to mod them. I've known quite a few people who bought 03/04 Cobras, and then they realized how really expensive it is to do anything to those cars.

Kurt

Kurt he is simply a fan boy with a slow car that surfs the internet and gets his information from there rather than real life. He has no idea what it takes to make a car fast in the real world. You are more than welcome to keep playing his game but I'm done with this clown. lol

 

[95Vert383AOD]

Kurt he is simply a fan boy with a slow car that surfs the internet and gets his information from there rather than real life. He has no idea what it takes to make a car fast in the real world. You are more than welcome to keep playing his game but I'm done with this clown. lol

Now time for the 900hp street legal Supras

DRUM ROLL PLEASE

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Hold your horses there sonny. My car puts 630+ ft lbs of torque to the wheels as soon as the bottle comes on at 3000rpms. I know exactly what's better than the rush of a positive displacement blower. It's called nitrous. Nothing hits harder or comes on faster than the giggle gas. If you want independent rear suspension, you can buy a 99' Cobra instead of a Mach 1, if that's your thing. They are both about the same price. There are only mild differences in the fuel systems between the non blower Cobras, and the blown models. I don't think you have a full understanding of how expensive it is to mod one of those 03/04 Cobras. It looks so easy, because generally the people who do it have a lot of money to start with. This is an SN95 forum. Our cars are only worth like $4K. Most of the 03/04 Cobras you see and read about that make all that power were bought by people who had enough dough to drop $30K in the first place. So yeah, they probably had a good amount of capital to mod them. I've known quite a few people who bought 03/04 Cobras, and then they realized how really expensive it is to do anything to those cars.

Kurt

Thanks for the info "pop", but you, like your friend have missed the point as well. When I made my statement with regards to the "rush of low end torque only brought on by a positive displacement blower" I was making reference to one of the three forced induction choices that Stopsign32v's entire argument revolved around. Nitrous is a whole different ball game.

And if you think modding an '03-'04 Cobra is any difficult, or expensive venture I would think it is you that hasn't a full understanding of the car. With simple bolt ons (about $2,000 in mods), you can easily add 100-150hp stone reliable horsepower to the engine. If you can tack that kind of power onto a Mach 1 or N/A Cobra or anything without a pushrod, without the aid of nitrous then by all means do so.

In any case, this isn't a debate about the cost of a 15-year-old SN95 in comparison to a Cobra. I can appreciate you wanting to stick up for you buddy, but lets try to be objective here and stick to the topic at hand.

What the hell are you talking about? When did I say the Mach 1 was better than a 03-04 Cobra?

You made reference to it in your base argument that started this whole fiasco when you stated how the Cobra was just a "fad" and that you'd be better off buying a Mach 1 and sinking the price difference between the two cars into it. I tried to explain to you that there was more than just strait line acceleration to a Cobra and that you couldn't duplicate if for the price and you went off!!!!

Oh...and are you ever going to answer my previous questions, or are you just going to continue to pretend I didn't ask them and take cheap shots? Just wondering so I know whether this conversation is worth while carrying on or not?

Gearbanger 101 you have alot alot alot to learn son. You simply twist words around until its what you want to hear. Such as this...


No one said a Mach 1 would run 12's stock you moron.

Wait....I'm being called "son" by a kid who's 10-years my junior? Now that's funny.

And by "stock" I was referring to engine output. Gears don't add horsepower....but in any case, you still haven't shown that 12-second gears only Mach 1 you based your argument on, so I guess it doesn't make a difference anyway. Thanks for showing me that one with bolt ons horsepower parts can run low-13's though.....although I'm quite sure I knew that one already.

And me twisting words? You’re the one who refuses to answer the questions laid out in front of you. Look, if you don’t want to continue to conduct an intelligent debate any longer, that’s fine, we don’t have to…..but at least either have the courtesy to address my statements to your claims, or bow out gracefully.

Oh and watch the “moron” comments. Someone might consider that a personal attack and take things in a whole new direction.

Kurt he is simply a fan boy with a slow car that surfs the internet and gets his information from there rather than real life. He has no idea what it takes to make a car fast in the real world. You are more than welcome to keep playing his game but I'm done with this clown. lol

Ahhh, and now comes the personal attacks. You can't seem to prove your bogus points, so you move on to the mud slinging. Yup...looks like I was right about you. Thanks for playing.

.....oh and if you consider a high-12-second car, making over 350lbs/ft of torque by 2,000RPM, clocking it at nearly 4,200lb with driver slow, then I've love to move to your planet. All this while still knocking down 25mpg I might add.

I may not have built the fastest car on the board, but then that wasn't my intent when I built it. If you honestly believe I haven't got a clue what it takes to make a car fast, then you're nowhere near as smart as I've given you credit for.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Now time for the 900hp street legal Supras

DRUM ROLL PLEASE

Mehh....400hp...900hp. What does it matter, they still all seem to run 12's when they get to the track.