a friend had a dirt track 74 camaro that we tried both on and i got to drive the car with each, amazingly enough i could feel more of a difference in the way the car turned in with the watts over the panhard bar, which is unusual for a car that only turns left with a panhard bar setup specifically for that. no real road course experience, but i had enough seat time in the camaro to form a preference
anyone interested in a new watts link and a 3 or 4 link in here
- Thread starter bnickel
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65up2d8
Member
Based on what Bnickel said and what I've been able to gather, I think I would definitely be interested in a 3 link setup. I look forward to hearing more about this product.
Anybody else out there with personal experience
Thanks for the input bnickle.
It would be nice to hear what others have to say. I've got an adjustable pan hard bar for mine, but the way things are going it could be spring before I get it installed. It should be against the law to have to work before you're 50.
I've read a lot of the stuff at CC.com, but those guys can get pretty esoteric at times. For instance they talk about the amount lateral axle movement with a pan hard bar, so I measured the amount of movement mine would cause through a 7" swing, above and below parallel. It was less than 1/16". I'll never be that good or serious of a driver to notice that.
In fact if Carol Shelby came up and put a green dot on my tire and told me that would make my car much faster... I'd go much faster!
Scott
Thanks for the input bnickle.
It would be nice to hear what others have to say. I've got an adjustable pan hard bar for mine, but the way things are going it could be spring before I get it installed. It should be against the law to have to work before you're 50.
I've read a lot of the stuff at CC.com, but those guys can get pretty esoteric at times. For instance they talk about the amount lateral axle movement with a pan hard bar, so I measured the amount of movement mine would cause through a 7" swing, above and below parallel. It was less than 1/16". I'll never be that good or serious of a driver to notice that.
In fact if Carol Shelby came up and put a green dot on my tire and told me that would make my car much faster... I'd go much faster!
Scott
4MuscleMachines
Member
I signed up for one but I suggest nobody enter their real date of birth when signing up. The PHR is lighter than the Watts and that can be an advantage to some... tough choice, I was about to buy..
www.fays2.net
It looks as though the EVO looks lighter? But on the other hand, FAY's product has been there for a while and its proven...again, tough decision.
www.fays2.net
It looks as though the EVO looks lighter? But on the other hand, FAY's product has been there for a while and its proven...again, tough decision.
Mike, I thought of another design concern.
Allot of the 65-66 Mustangs use Granada 9" rear ends (myself included) the spring mounting pads are rotated 7 degrees from a stock 65-66 or Edsel rear end.
To keep cost down a bolt on bracket would be preferred as apposed to buying a complete housing or having the bracket welded to the axle in a fixture to prevent warping.
If using a three link this would be less of an issue.
Allot of the 65-66 Mustangs use Granada 9" rear ends (myself included) the spring mounting pads are rotated 7 degrees from a stock 65-66 or Edsel rear end.
To keep cost down a bolt on bracket would be preferred as apposed to buying a complete housing or having the bracket welded to the axle in a fixture to prevent warping.
If using a three link this would be less of an issue.
4MuscleMachines said:
i like the fays 2 watts as well and had planned on going that route myself, but then Mike from EVM made that post on CC forums and said they were going to make this piece the first part in a modular rear suspension system and they are talking about doing a front suspension now as well, i think that if i'm going to go with their rear setup at some point i would be best served by using their watts link.
i think either watts link will be excellent and as you said the fays 2 watts is already proven, so for someone that is not planning on changing the rear suspension and needs the watts link sooner than later the fays 2 is probably the way to go. but if someone is willing to wait a bit and see what EVM comes up with then you will have a couple of good choices, choices are good.
so when the EVM watts comes out you can choose between the EVM watts, the Fays 2 watts or the maier panhard bar setup. if you want a complete rear suspension setup again you will have more choices. the EVM rear setup, which at the moment looks as if it's going to be a 3 link, the tcp/unique performance lay down coilover or the griggs torque arm setup, oh and the hew RRS torque arm setup as well, although i think the RRS system needs some improvement it mat still better than a factory leaf spring setup.
Everyone,
Just to give you an update. We are about 80% done the design of the Watts for the Mustang. We are working on one for the vintage GM vehicles in parallel.
While the watts is being developed we are designing in pickup points for teh complete suspension. We haven't gone too deep, but the suspension will be modular, and a three link. You can buy it piece by piece, or in a completed form. We will offer an axle housing as part of a kit, but we will also allow everyone to use their current housing. So, it will be very flexible.
We will offer two versions of the Watts link. Steel and Aluminum.
I have seen the fays2 watts link mentioned a few times and how it is a proven design. I am not sure, but I think the Fays2 Watts has been out about a year. Our frame mounted Watts link for the late model Mustangs, was an overwhelming success and has been in production for three years now. We won a SEMA award for it in 2002. To the best of my knowledge we are the first company to offer a commercially available frame mounted Watts link. I only mention this to alleviate any concerns over a proven design.
Moving the Watts link to the vintage cars is just a natural progression for us. We offer the TriLink for the newer cars as well. We just need to adapt our proven designs, so development times should be short.
Thanks...Mike
Just to give you an update. We are about 80% done the design of the Watts for the Mustang. We are working on one for the vintage GM vehicles in parallel.
While the watts is being developed we are designing in pickup points for teh complete suspension. We haven't gone too deep, but the suspension will be modular, and a three link. You can buy it piece by piece, or in a completed form. We will offer an axle housing as part of a kit, but we will also allow everyone to use their current housing. So, it will be very flexible.
We will offer two versions of the Watts link. Steel and Aluminum.
I have seen the fays2 watts link mentioned a few times and how it is a proven design. I am not sure, but I think the Fays2 Watts has been out about a year. Our frame mounted Watts link for the late model Mustangs, was an overwhelming success and has been in production for three years now. We won a SEMA award for it in 2002. To the best of my knowledge we are the first company to offer a commercially available frame mounted Watts link. I only mention this to alleviate any concerns over a proven design.
Moving the Watts link to the vintage cars is just a natural progression for us. We offer the TriLink for the newer cars as well. We just need to adapt our proven designs, so development times should be short.
Thanks...Mike
4MuscleMachines
Member
Evolution said:
Will the exhaust need to be re-routed or shortened with down pipes? It would be a real advantage to your product since the Fays2 install needs to have the exhaust modified, probably only dumps.
I just put a Fays2 in my kids' '65 today. On the driver's side, no exhaust mod is needed at all. You can run a normal over-the-axle tailpipe, including a GT valence exit, which is what I've got.
The passenger side will require custom work, but should not be a big deal. The difference is because the lateral link on the driver's side attaches to a spring perch plate, down low, while the link on the passenger side attaches to a sleeve clamped around the axle tube. So it sits up high, about even with the top of the axle tube at ride height, and sticking out about four inches to the rear of the axle. That's right where a normal over-the-axle tailpipe would be doing its turn-down.
The solution is to run the tailpipe up over the Fays2 framework, in the channel that's in the belly pan between the gas tank and the framerail. I've been wanting to get rid of these Flowmaster 40's ever since I got this car, so I don't mind the need for this extra exhaust work. But there's no doubt that with the Fays2 you either need to go with a turn-down, a side exhaust, or the tailpipe routing that I've described.
Other than that, I should mention that the kit is top quality and everything you need 's there. I can't tell you how well it works yet because I'm still not back on the road. I can't even give a good A-B comparison when I'm done, because I'm also swapping out all four springs (Eaton 4-leaf 153#, converted to "4 + 1" for lowering, and Pro-Motorsports 480-680 coils), Slide-A-Links (which includes aluminum front eye bushings), a Prothane HD shackle kit, Baer Trackers bump steer eliminators, and Opentracker roller perches. I'm also at the same time swapping a '95 Mustang GT T-5 with MGW shifter for 3-spd toploader, keeping the '65 bellhousing and Z-bar.
We already have a 1" front sway bar, midolyne bushings throughout, a rebuilt steering box, Shelby drop, Maier Racing boxed and realigned UCA's and boxed LCA's, MR one-piece underhood brace, MR welded frame connectors, and MR 6-pt roll cage, KYB Gas-A-Justs (soon to be Bilsteins), Trans Am Racing dual MC and booster with SSBC 4-piston calipers and 11" rotors, and 235/45-17 "Falkens" on black 17 x 8 5.00 BS Raceline GT's.
The passenger side will require custom work, but should not be a big deal. The difference is because the lateral link on the driver's side attaches to a spring perch plate, down low, while the link on the passenger side attaches to a sleeve clamped around the axle tube. So it sits up high, about even with the top of the axle tube at ride height, and sticking out about four inches to the rear of the axle. That's right where a normal over-the-axle tailpipe would be doing its turn-down.
The solution is to run the tailpipe up over the Fays2 framework, in the channel that's in the belly pan between the gas tank and the framerail. I've been wanting to get rid of these Flowmaster 40's ever since I got this car, so I don't mind the need for this extra exhaust work. But there's no doubt that with the Fays2 you either need to go with a turn-down, a side exhaust, or the tailpipe routing that I've described.
Other than that, I should mention that the kit is top quality and everything you need 's there. I can't tell you how well it works yet because I'm still not back on the road. I can't even give a good A-B comparison when I'm done, because I'm also swapping out all four springs (Eaton 4-leaf 153#, converted to "4 + 1" for lowering, and Pro-Motorsports 480-680 coils), Slide-A-Links (which includes aluminum front eye bushings), a Prothane HD shackle kit, Baer Trackers bump steer eliminators, and Opentracker roller perches. I'm also at the same time swapping a '95 Mustang GT T-5 with MGW shifter for 3-spd toploader, keeping the '65 bellhousing and Z-bar.
We already have a 1" front sway bar, midolyne bushings throughout, a rebuilt steering box, Shelby drop, Maier Racing boxed and realigned UCA's and boxed LCA's, MR one-piece underhood brace, MR welded frame connectors, and MR 6-pt roll cage, KYB Gas-A-Justs (soon to be Bilsteins), Trans Am Racing dual MC and booster with SSBC 4-piston calipers and 11" rotors, and 235/45-17 "Falkens" on black 17 x 8 5.00 BS Raceline GT's.
UPDATE TO EVM VINTAGE WATTS LINK
Everyone, just wanted to provide an update.
Our Vintage Watts Link for the 1965-1973 Ford Mustang is now available for ordering at an introductory price of $575.00, plus S&H. We will be taking pre-orders through March 15, 2006. After the Pre-Order period we will be kicking off our first production run. The production run should last 4-6 weeks, then orders can be shipped. PLEASE NOTE: If you already placed a Pre-Order, you will need to place a new order.
Placing your order now will ensure you are the first on your block to get the Vintage Watts Link.
Since there will be a 4-6 week waiting period, your order will only be authorized. Your credit card will not be charged until your order is ready for shipment. If you wish to cancel your order at anytime in the period between order and delivery, you may do so by emailing us with your request. There will be no cancellation penalty for this.
A few notes regarding the Watts link. In the pictures you will see our prototype. The actual production unit will have a few tweaks and cleaned up welds. A gusset and some additional bracing are also slated for production. The prototype unit is 95% complete.
Our website contains the latest information on the Vintage Watts link and will be updated as needed. Click on the link below for all the latest:
http://www.evolutionmsport.com/evmCart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=38
We are hoping to have complete instructions by the time the production units are shipped out. At a minimum we will have word documents that detail the install, which will be followed up with complete detailed instructions.
The Watts link is the first piece of our modular rear suspension. In the coming weeks we will have an Adjustable Stabilizer bar and three link suspension built around it.
Please email us with any questions.
Regards,
Mike
Everyone, just wanted to provide an update.
Our Vintage Watts Link for the 1965-1973 Ford Mustang is now available for ordering at an introductory price of $575.00, plus S&H. We will be taking pre-orders through March 15, 2006. After the Pre-Order period we will be kicking off our first production run. The production run should last 4-6 weeks, then orders can be shipped. PLEASE NOTE: If you already placed a Pre-Order, you will need to place a new order.
Placing your order now will ensure you are the first on your block to get the Vintage Watts Link.
Since there will be a 4-6 week waiting period, your order will only be authorized. Your credit card will not be charged until your order is ready for shipment. If you wish to cancel your order at anytime in the period between order and delivery, you may do so by emailing us with your request. There will be no cancellation penalty for this.
A few notes regarding the Watts link. In the pictures you will see our prototype. The actual production unit will have a few tweaks and cleaned up welds. A gusset and some additional bracing are also slated for production. The prototype unit is 95% complete.
Our website contains the latest information on the Vintage Watts link and will be updated as needed. Click on the link below for all the latest:
http://www.evolutionmsport.com/evmCart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=38
We are hoping to have complete instructions by the time the production units are shipped out. At a minimum we will have word documents that detail the install, which will be followed up with complete detailed instructions.
The Watts link is the first piece of our modular rear suspension. In the coming weeks we will have an Adjustable Stabilizer bar and three link suspension built around it.
Please email us with any questions.
Regards,
Mike
MustangMatt1966
New Member
MustangMatt1966 said:the links not working
Try it now, or just use this:
http://www.evolutionmsport.com/evmCart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=38
Thanks...Mike
