diablosport

[bvega]

First off, my bad experiences have nothing to do with "their new hardware" or whatever excuse that is. When you send a tuner back to someone to have updated and they blow smoke up your but for 3 months to do a simple update, that is sad.

Now that SCT has left the large infrastructure and funding of Superchips and is starting over, I have even less confidence.

As far as the modular depot article about the ATI procharged SCT vehicle, I think it speaks for itself. SCT is purposely misinforming consumers. They criticize scott beer from diablosport for not making a more accurate tune that advanced the timing more and renormalizing the tables. They also stated a very lean condition.

Repeatedly Scott Beer would correct the SCT guys by stating the obvious; that your timing tables and A/F ratios will not be fully accurate when your MAF sensor is relocated and installed by the end user. How can Scott beer make custom timing tables for every possible MAF installation? He cant, which is why SCT made their tune on the dyno.

Hello, but MAF position and location issues have been around from day one with the extremely sensitve s197 CAN system that needs reflashing for simple CAI kits.

Of course any on-site custom dyno tune would be optimal, because the predator only includes a tune that would get the car to run. It is by no means optimized.

Furthermore, SCT did not FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS and go through the process of adjusting the MAF curve as the end user would have done before creating their baseline runs with the lower output figures and lean a/F ratios. Also, renormalizing the timing talbes can seriously damage your motor and hurt performance if you MAF is not installed exactly the same as the test vechicle for the tune and is checked and corrected for accuracy. That is why Scott chose to not go there. It needs to be safe a reliable. Custom Dyno tunes have always been the optimal choice for the best performance but even since the 5.0's manufactures have provided FMU's and adjustable pressure regulators to tune the car to run well, just not perfect. But procharger cant supply a free dyno custom tune to everyone all over the country, its just not realistic. People want to drive their car now and dont want to have to trailer their car to a dyno shop to have it tuned, or pay for the dyno shop to install the part.

They purposely gave themselves room to shine. If you look at other threads at modular depot you will see that SCT guys and Scott Beer talk as professional colleagues because they love these cars and want to innovate.

 

[tmcolegr]

I can personally vouch for Scott's abilities and knowledge of both his product and the 05 Mustang. He has personally built many custom tunes for me, dyno'd my vehicle, and I have never experienced any reliability issues with his tunes. All of his tunes provide excellent performance without sacrificing drivability or reliability.

 

[TGJ]

First off, my bad experiences have nothing to do with "their new hardware" or whatever excuse that is. When you send a tuner back to someone to have updated and they blow smoke up your but for 3 months to do a simple update, that is sad.

Now that SCT has left the large infrastructure and funding of Superchips and is starting over, I have even less confidence.

As far as the modular depot article about the ATI procharged SCT vehicle, I think it speaks for itself. SCT is purposely misinforming consumers. They criticize scott beer from diablosport for not making a more accurate tune that advanced the timing more and renormalizing the tables. They also stated a very lean condition.

Repeatedly Scott Beer would correct the SCT guys by stating the obvious; that your timing tables and A/F ratios will not be fully accurate when your MAF sensor is relocated and installed by the end user. How can Scott beer make custom timing tables for every possible MAF installation? He cant, which is why SCT made their tune on the dyno.

Hello, but MAF position and location issues have been around from day one with the extremely sensitve s197 CAN system that needs reflashing for simple CAI kits.

Of course any on-site custom dyno tune would be optimal, because the predator only includes a tune that would get the car to run. It is by no means optimized.

Furthermore, SCT did not FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS and go through the process of adjusting the MAF curve as the end user would have done before creating their baseline runs with the lower output figures and lean a/F ratios. Also, renormalizing the timing talbes can seriously damage your motor and hurt performance if you MAF is not installed exactly the same as the test vechicle for the tune and is checked and corrected for accuracy. That is why Scott chose to not go there. It needs to be safe a reliable. Custom Dyno tunes have always been the optimal choice for the best performance but even since the 5.0's manufactures have provided FMU's and adjustable pressure regulators to tune the car to run well, just not perfect. But procharger cant supply a free dyno custom tune to everyone all over the country, its just not realistic. People want to drive their car now and dont want to have to trailer their car to a dyno shop to have it tuned, or pay for the dyno shop to install the part.

They purposely gave themselves room to shine. If you look at other threads at modular depot you will see that SCT guys and Scott Beer talk as professional colleagues because they love these cars and want to innovate.

Who said SCT left Superchips, they were never together to begin with. All tht has happened is that SCT is using their own hardware instead of Superchips.

Where do you think Diablo created it's tune, on the Dyno.

So are you saying that people are not following ATI Procharger's instructions and placing the MAF somewhere else and that is why there are issues? Otherwise as long as they follow the directions, the MAF will be located in the same spot that SCT and Diablo created the tune for.

If placing the MAF somewhere else than the position where the instructions call for it, will affect the tune, it doesn't matter if it SCT or Diablo. The point being, the MAF placement is irrevalant in that discussion.

 

[bvega]

No you dont understand. The instructions call for the end user to monitor their fuel trims and adjust the MAF curve accordingly. Therefore the canned tune is not optimized and is not advertised to be optimized. How can you optimize a car if you never dynoed it with that MAF location on that particular car.

Where you locate the MAF and how it is clocked will matter. As you may well know, the CAN system is very sensitive and requires precise calibration. There is no wiggle room to fudge a fenderwell CAI or swap a c&l meter or pro-meter like previous ecm systems.

Sure, the test mule cars dynoed and tuned by scott didnt have the lean a/f ratios. That was his point. In the commanded fuel tables it shows that his tune is calling for a nice safe fuel mixture. Then why was the car running so "dangerously" lean? Because SCT didnt adjust the MAF curve using the predator per the instructions. Instead they went on and on about how dangerouse it was and how they had to abort the dyno run and make a safe tune. If the MAF curve is not adjusted properly then you will have faulty timing and fuel mixtures among other issues because you load readings are out of wack.

It was just an unequal comparison. It is fact that no two cars are identical. Some stock mustangs make 10% or more power than another. Some cars get CEL lights with some parts and others dont. Therefore a canned tune is not optimal and never has been.

The point that was "glossed over" by SCT in their article was that the predator allows and instructs the end user how to fine tune the canned tune for better performance. This is still not as good as a custom dyno tune but it also costs a lot less than the $100-150 per hour.

What they should have done was have scott dyno tune the same car and compare the results. That is a true scientific comparion, but they didnt do that. SCT skewed the results IMO.

There are other issues with the procharger kit that are not tune related such as the the fuel pressure drop issue as well as some people pegging their stock meter. Those issues are hardware issues and not the fault of diablosport.

I am not trying to trash any company, but people need to look deeper into an article written by SCT about their impressions of a competitors product. Thats like asking GM if the ford mustang is the right car for them. You will get biased answers and skewed results.

I know there are many happy diablo and SCT customers as well a some disatisfied diablo and sct customers. That happens. There are also some disatisfied '05 mustang gt customers and disatisfied corvette customers. I just think that allowing manufactures like SCT to write articles like that to drum up business is sad. Its not like diablosport has been writing articles about crappy sct tunes and hardware are.

Its obvious that SCT is a little ticked off that many of the aftermarket manufactures went with diablosport to develop the tunes and this is there way to take back some of the lost market. I dont mind their desire to compete, I just think it is inappropriate for them to be doing so through an educational tech article that consumers and hobbyists in the mustang community use to help decide how we spend and enjoy our hard earned money.

 

[TGJ]

No you dont understand. The instructions call for the end user to monitor their fuel trims and adjust the MAF curve accordingly. Therefore the canned tune is not optimized and is not advertised to be optimized. How can you optimize a car if you never dynoed it with that MAF location on that particular car.

Where you locate the MAF and how it is clocked will matter. As you may well know, the CAN system is very sensitive and requires precise calibration. There is no wiggle room to fudge a fenderwell CAI or swap a c&l meter or pro-meter like previous ecm systems.

Sure, the test mule cars dynoed and tuned by scott didnt have the lean a/f ratios. That was his point. In the commanded fuel tables it shows that his tune is calling for a nice safe fuel mixture. Then why was the car running so "dangerously" lean? Because SCT didnt adjust the MAF curve using the predator per the instructions. Instead they went on and on about how dangerouse it was and how they had to abort the dyno run and make a safe tune. If the MAF curve is not adjusted properly then you will have faulty timing and fuel mixtures among other issues because you load readings are out of wack.

It was just an unequal comparison. It is fact that no two cars are identical. Some stock mustangs make 10% or more power than another. Some cars get CEL lights with some parts and others dont. Therefore a canned tune is not optimal and never has been.

The point that was "glossed over" by SCT in their article was that the predator allows and instructs the end user how to fine tune the canned tune for better performance. This is still not as good as a custom dyno tune but it also costs a lot less than the $100-150 per hour.

What they should have done was have scott dyno tune the same car and compare the results. That is a true scientific comparion, but they didnt do that. SCT skewed the results IMO.

There are other issues with the procharger kit that are not tune related such as the the fuel pressure drop issue as well as some people pegging their stock meter. Those issues are hardware issues and not the fault of diablosport.

I am not trying to trash any company, but people need to look deeper into an article written by SCT about their impressions of a competitors product. Thats like asking GM if the ford mustang is the right car for them. You will get biased answers and skewed results.

I know there are many happy diablo and SCT customers as well a some disatisfied diablo and sct customers. That happens. There are also some disatisfied '05 mustang gt customers and disatisfied corvette customers. I just think that allowing manufactures like SCT to write articles like that to drum up business is sad. Its not like diablosport has been writing articles about crappy sct tunes and hardware are.

Its obvious that SCT is a little ticked off that many of the aftermarket manufactures went with diablosport to develop the tunes and this is there way to take back some of the lost market. I dont mind their desire to compete, I just think it is inappropriate for them to be doing so through an educational tech article that consumers and hobbyists in the mustang community use to help decide how we spend and enjoy our hard earned money.

I understand that the MAF function is important. I have never questioned that. What I don't get is how far off the Canned Diablo tune is and that is one of my issues with Diablo. There should be no reason to adjust a canned tune that much to make it safe. I have seen cars with Diablo canned tunes that even if you adjusted them as much as you can, they are still unsafe and you then are required to pay extra to have a tune created for you. I have yet to see that with a SCT tune. This includes the 05 Mustang.

Yes I am going to be hard on a company that claims to be the best out there when they are having issues like this. I can understand minor adjustments, but 3 full points on an A/F ratio is not a minor adjustment.

SCT has been writing articles at MD for quite some time about tuning, MAF, Fuel delivery, so the fact that they came out with one on the 05 Procharged car is nothing I wouldn't expect from them, well the bashing of Diablo a bit. I don't think SCT is pissed off because they are working with many aftermarket companies( Kenne Bell, Saleen, etc. ) as well.

I am quite critical of SCT as well. I have ripped into a few well known SCT dealers for being incompetent. Not on this board but others.

 

[NickDiabloSport]

The point being missed in the 2005 GT Procharger kit, as with all their systems, it is a blow through system and this is the reason for the need to adjust MAF curve in the calibration. We also generate calibrations for other supercharger companies and have no need to adjust calibrations.

If the system you choose to use needs this type of tuning, regardless of whether you have relocated the MAF or your system is blow through, DiabloSport has provided the tools to do it. This is the best we can do, and the reason so many companies have chosen to use our programmers and tuning software.

If other companies are making an effort to show where they have made better power, on a specific vehicle on a dyno, well this is to be expected. We make a calibration to optimize power, and safety knowing we will not have the use of a dyno in every situation. Many customers are looking for the convenience of a bolt on kit. We know a dyno and custom tuning software will, and should, always be worth a few extra horsepower.

Every tuner commands safe air fuel ratios, and we test thoroughly on the dyno as well as on the street in all possible conditions. If these numbers are not produced then there is a reason, whether its aftermarket parts we have not run with the combination, or fuel or other conditions we have no control over. All we can do is supply the tools to address these issues, and try to educate end-users on how to deal with these conditions.


Thanks,
Nick Spinelli
DiabloSport VP Marketing
[email protected]