What a turd. I got on it a little and I noticed it was decently quick, but then herd the s/cer whine.. and I had to think to myself... "Is this thing supercharged???" That's when you know it's nothing you'd spend 4-5K on. Nick
Drove a GT with a Roush S/Cer....
- Thread starter PoopDawg
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What a turd. I got on it a little and I noticed it was decently quick, but then herd the s/cer whine.. and I had to think to myself... "Is this thing supercharged???" That's when you know it's nothing you'd spend 4-5K on. Nick
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klaw
Member
I'm not sure what your point is. Do you know how it was pulley'd or how conservative the tune was? I know lots of guys that have the Roush s/c and are very happy with their investment. Roush wasn't my choice but I don't think they're crap. I'm glad you found out that the performance/price tradeoff wasn't high enough for your wallet before shelling out the dough.
Five Oh Brian
Member
I've seen a couple Roushcharged 05+ Mustang GT's at our local drag strip. Both were manual transmission, both with sticky drag radials, and both were the basic 415hp systems. One ran 12.80's @ 108 mph and the other struggled to run high 14's @ 95 mph. The second car had a lot of driver issues. I spoke to him and he'd never drag raced and it showed. The other guy had run that car down the drag strip a lot, and I spoke with him many times on various days. He ran 108 mph ever single time, regardless of whether he ran 12.80's or low 13's (occasional traction issues when he didn't heat the tires enough).
In summary, the 415hp Roushcharger kit just didn't seem like enough bang for the buck to me, as delivered, so I bought a completely different supercharger when it was my time to do so.
In summary, the 415hp Roushcharger kit just didn't seem like enough bang for the buck to me, as delivered, so I bought a completely different supercharger when it was my time to do so.
BJ1000RR
New Member
I raced a guy at the track with the rousch S/C, he smoked me bad. I ran a 12.8 @106 to his 12.0 @ 116. He said it made 418 hp to the wheels.
I'm sure they *can* be made fast... But they're based on an M90 roots, I believe. Same as a Supercoupe. I mean, come on! Sure, it was quicker then my GT... But for the price he probably paid for the s/cer... It wasn't close to being worth it. And I'm sure it was the stock pulley and tune on it.
klaw
Member
Maybe it wasn't worth it for you - but was for him. 4-5k is chump change for some guys.
Sometimes it comes down to how much is enough. I can see the appeal for some in improving the performance over the stock GT without getting to the point that clutch, tranny, and rearend issues will start to come into play. Without knowing what the guy's intentions were with the car, calling it a turd just seems ridiculous. What do you call stock GT's or V6's then?
They are seriously using an M90? 
An M90 would be wheezing badly on a stock 96-98 4.6, with 215hp from the factory.
An M90 would be wheezing badly on a stock 96-98 4.6, with 215hp from the factory.
It’s actually not the same as the one on the Supercoupe. The Supercoupes used a 2nd and 3rd Gen M90 (depending on the year). The Roush uses a 4th Gen MP90, which is vastly improved over the previous model. Either way, don't discount the blower just because it’s an M90. The blower kit in my 2V Cougar runs a 3rd Gen M90S (same as the one on the '94-'95 Supercoupe, only "S" ported) and even at 4,200lbs (with driver) sucking through a 4R70W automatic transmission and IRS I'm still able to knock down consistent high-12's with it. Considering my car ran mid-16's stock, I'd say that "little" M90 is working for its dinner! There are guys in the Supercoupe world running 10’s with their 3.8L M90 equipped cars, so there is still power to be had.
Yes, there are much bigger offerings out there, but that's not to say the Roush kit isn’t a worth while investment. As a matter of fact, both the Roush Stage 3 and 427R use a version of the kit you mentioned above and both are equally capable of slapping the taste out of the mouths of all but the most extreme N/A GT's. That little MP90 Stage 3 even bested the 2.3L Twin Screw Equipped Saleen in a head to head drag test.....so there's jam to be had!!!
You simply must have just gotten a turd?
Perhaps....but so would any blower. The cork in the '96-'98 GT is the heads, cams and intake. I've seen guys with S-Trim Vortechs and 1.7L Kenne Bells barely making over 300RWPH through the stock NPI hardware. There is blame to be laid with the ’96-’98 power adder equipped cars my friend, but none of it should be shouldered on the lowly Eaton M90.They are seriously using an M90?
An M90 would be wheezing badly on a stock 96-98 4.6, with 215hp from the factory.
It’s actually not the same as the one on the Supercoupe. The Supercoupes used a 2nd and 3rd Gen M90 (depending on the year). The Roush uses a 4th Gen MP90, which is vastly improved over the previous model. Either way, don't discount the blower just because it’s an M90. The blower kit in my 2V Cougar runs a 3rd Gen M90S (same as the one on the '94-'95 Supercoupe, only "S" ported) and even at 4,200lbs (with driver) sucking through a 4R70W automatic transmission and IRS I'm still able to knock down consistent high-12's with it. Considering my car ran mid-16's stock, I'd say that "little" M90 is working for its dinner! There are guys in the Supercoupe world running 10’s with their 3.8L M90 equipped cars, so there is still power to be had.
Yes, there are much bigger offerings out there, but that's not to say the Roush kit isn’t a worth while investment. As a matter of fact, both the Roush Stage 3 and 427R use a version of the kit you mentioned above and both are equally capable of slapping the taste out of the mouths of all but the most extreme N/A GT's. That little MP90 Stage 3 even bested the 2.3L Twin Screw Equipped Saleen in a head to head drag test.....so there's jam to be had!!!
You simply must have just gotten a turd?
Perhaps....but so would any blower. The cork in the '96-'98 GT is the heads, cams and intake. I've seen guys with S-Trim Vortechs and 1.7L Kenne Bells barely making over 300RWPH through the stock NPI hardware. There is blame to be laid with the ’96-’98 power adder equipped cars my friend, but none of it should be shouldered on the lowly Eaton M90.
I could make the arguement that I could make a Honda Fit run 8's with an NA VTEC motor... Just because it can be done doesn't mean it's the best or most efficient way.... And def. not the cheapest or most cost effective way either.
I don't see what there is to quibble about. Power adder = Fast! Who cares in what form it comes in?
So let me get this strait......if it were a big manly Vortech, Paxton, Kenne Bell, Whipple, Twin/Single turbo, etc set up and making the same power figures all would be dandy, but because its a lowly Eaton MP90 motivating the car, it should be compared to a rice box with an engine swap?
Further more, because you don't particularly like the flavor of blower being utilized, it must not be cost effective or efficient? Well lets look at that for a second....in base trim, right off the showroom floor the Roush 427R with its little 1.35L MP90 makes just about as much power and has actually on occasion been proven quicker than the Saleen S281 with its 2.3L 140AX. In this example I see a crappy little Eaton still running well within its efficiency range keeping pace with the big bad twin screw nearly twice its size. Now you tell me based on that factoid, which one of the two power adders is the least "efficient” or the bigger waste of money of the two? The one that's doing more, with less, or the one thats doing less with more? If the Roush kit with the MP90 wasn’t doing its job, then sure we could bitch about the package and down play its performance, but the results speak for themselves.
And because you got a hold of one unimpressive example a few days ago, the whole lot must be a mistake? Gawd.....I hope the CEO’s at Roush have the engineers that designed the kit standing in the unemployment line this morning after your expert opinion.
Look, if you don't like Roush's choice of blower, that's fine. Nobody said you weren't allowed to have a personal bias. But please don't provide some weak sauce import comparison with lame reasoning as an explanation just to satisfy an inferiority complex you might have because the little guy on the block is capable of running with the big dogs.
Take bang for the buck into account and every bolt on short of a power adder is a waste of money by comparison. Tell me....how many parts does it take and what would it cost be to add 135hp to a stock 3V without the use of a power adder....all while maintaining stock fuel economy, reliability and improved drivability?
The base Roush set up is as good an entry level blower as any other on the market and has proven such since its inception. And since its performing at a level on par with its peers, I really don’t see why its physical size or displacement should matter? Those wanting more power out of the deal and who wish to stick with the Roush Product are jumping up the bigger TVS series now offered. Just as others wanting a harder hitting package are jumping into larger offerings from the other respected supercharger manufactures. That's how it works, thats how it has always worked!
....so I really don't see the problem?
opcorn:
klaw
Member
JOEGTS
New Member
I have a friend with a Roush supercharger with an auto that runs lower 12's through the cats. If i were to ever supercharge my car the roush unit would be the one I would use because of it's stock fitting appearance.
klaw
Member
I don't see what there is to quibble about. Power adder = Fast! Who cares in what form it comes in?
So let me get this strait......if it were a big manly Vortech, Paxton, Kenne Bell, Whipple, Twin/Single turbo, etc set up and making the same power figures all would be dandy, but because its a lowly Eaton MP90 motivating the car, it should be compared to a rice box with an engine swap?
Further more, because you don't particularly like the flavor of blower being utilized, it must not be cost effective or efficient? Well lets look at that for a second....in base trim, right off the showroom floor the Roush 427R with its little 1.35L MP90 makes just about as much power and has actually on occasion been proven quicker than the Saleen S281 with its 2.3L 140AX. In this example I see a crappy little Eaton still running well within its efficiency range keeping pace with the big bad twin screw nearly twice its size. Now you tell me based on that factoid, which one of the two power adders is the least "efficient” or the bigger waste of money of the two? The one that's doing more, with less, or the one thats doing less with more? If the Roush kit with the MP90 wasn’t doing its job, then sure we could bitch about the package and down play its performance, but the results speak for themselves.
And because you got a hold of one unimpressive example a few days ago, the whole lot must be a mistake? Gawd.....I hope the CEO’s at Roush have the engineers that designed the kit standing in the unemployment line this morning after your expert opinion.
Look, if you don't like Roush's choice of blower, that's fine. Nobody said you weren't allowed to have a personal bias. But please don't provide some weak sauce import comparison with lame reasoning as an explanation just to satisfy an inferiority complex you might have because the little guy on the block is capable of running with the big dogs.
Take bang for the buck into account and every bolt on short of a power adder is a waste of money by comparison. Tell me....how many parts does it take and what would it cost be to add 135hp to a stock 3V without the use of a power adder....all while maintaining stock fuel economy, reliability and improved drivability?
The base Roush set up is as good an entry level blower as any other on the market and has proven such since its inception. And since its performing at a level on par with its peers, I really don’t see why its physical size or displacement should matter? Those wanting more power out of the deal and who wish to stick with the Roush Product are jumping up the bigger TVS series now offered. Just as others wanting a harder hitting package are jumping into larger offerings from the other respected supercharger manufactures. That's how it works, thats how it has always worked!
....so I really don't see the problem?
Wow. You have too much time. You win. I give up. The M90 is the best s/cer ever made and that Roush s/cer was too much for the street. It should be for race cars only.
Five Oh Brian
Member
Poopdawg, come on. You drove a car that didn't "feel" fast. Maybe it wasn't tuned properly, or was saddled with other equipment that didn't let the supercharger strut its stuff. Not sure why it felt so slow to you. But, maybe it just "felt" slow even though it truly fast?
Case in point: My 07 GT Automatic didn't feel too fast when I first got the Vortech blower on it and I was disappointed initially with how little difference I "felt" with the blower on. However, after dyno tuning, I went to the local 1/4 mile dragstrip and ripped 12.30's @ 110-112 mph versus the 13.30's @ 100-102 mph I was doing before the blower. A full second and 10 mph through the traps tells me I spent my money very well, whether I could "feel" the difference or not.
I guess what I'm trying to convey is that our butt-o-meters don't always tell us what's really happening.
Case in point: My 07 GT Automatic didn't feel too fast when I first got the Vortech blower on it and I was disappointed initially with how little difference I "felt" with the blower on. However, after dyno tuning, I went to the local 1/4 mile dragstrip and ripped 12.30's @ 110-112 mph versus the 13.30's @ 100-102 mph I was doing before the blower. A full second and 10 mph through the traps tells me I spent my money very well, whether I could "feel" the difference or not.
I guess what I'm trying to convey is that our butt-o-meters don't always tell us what's really happening.
Five-Oh , while I agree with you, I also agree with Poop Dawg.. I don't think Poop Dawg is trying to say the original Roush S/C is the worst thing to ever hit the market. I think he is saying, compared to others the Roush S/C is a dog. Compared to the rest of the field the original Roush S/C is WAY behind. Pound for Pound the M90 based Roush S/C cannot hold up agianst the likes of the new TVS, whipple or KB blowers.
Too much time on my hands??? Maybe, but since you seem so eager to dismiss any viewpoint that differs from your own without reason, I felt it necessary to explain in greater detail for others who might be interested in a more involved opinion.....but it's nice to see that you're being so mature with your response at least.Wow. You have too much time. You win. I give up. The M90 is the best s/cer ever made and that Roush s/cer was too much for the street. It should be for race cars only.
Really, because that's pretty much exactly how I took it?
If you're spinning them hard, then yes.....I would agree with you that a blower more suited to top end efficiency like the new 2300 TVS or a large displacement Twin Screw are going to out power the Roush's MP90 by comparison. That's really no contest.....bigger almost always equal better as far as the physical ability to make more horsepower is concerned.
Then again, making a statement like “pound for pound the MP90 doesn’t stack up to the rest” (assuming you are referring to boost in this example) really isn’t an accurate depiction of the blowers output either? Things like manifold/inlet design and shape, intake and exhaust modifications, supercharger timing/port configuration, cam profiles, etc, etc will all have an effect on how much literal “boost” is showing up on the gauge. As such, boost and horsepower figures should not be considered a direct representation of one and other, nor should boost be considered a measurement of airflow. Even with blowers of the same displacement, boost can vary greatly based on the above factors.
When you get into the subject of efficiency, a smaller displacement Eaton like the MP90 tends to actually be more efficient at lower blower speeds than larger Twin Screws, since the shorter rotor profile length usually promote better sealing and reduced leak down, not to mention unlike the Twin Screw, no internal compression is taking place with the Eaton, as such less heat is being generated. The large displacement blowers don’t start showing their muscle until the upper ranges, where due to the the MP90’s limited displacement, higher rotor speeds are necessary in order to meet airflow requirements. Faster rotor speeds increase air charge temperatures and as a result reduce thermal efficiency. This is the instance having a larger displacement blower would come in handy.
If you plan on building the bottom end later on, and shooting for hard hitting power number, then I would suggest something other than the base Roush kit as it's limitations will be realized. That being said, the base Roush kit even without running the blower beyond its efficiency range is still as capable (with supporting mods) of breaking the stock 3V internals as any of them are, so unless you plan on beefing up that short block to go along with the blower install, you’re not likely to reach the limits of the supercharger anyway. So in that respect, I would hardly consider it a dog, or a waste of money. At least no more so than any of the others?
