Engine goes down, timing chain... Replacement engine or easy fix?

[Fuzzylogic]

Hey all,

We figured out what's wrong with the '86 GT after taking it to a mechanic. It needs a new timing chain. We were quoted $1300 to do it. Yank the engine, swap it out, plug it back into the car. Three questions.

Worth the effort/money on a 200k+ mile engine? I presume no.

Second question - doing it ourselves, does anyone have a good walk-thru written up? We have a Chilton's and we're kind've overwhelmed, this would be the first time we did something like this.

Third question... Viability of finding another 5L engine with less miles, for less money, and plugging it in? At this point, I'm kinda leaning towards that - unless you experts see no reason why we couldn't use the engine we already have, and just freshen it up to negate the 200K miles it has on it. I don't even know what that would require.

So, any input is appreciated. I'm seeing this as a blessing in disguise, as one way or another that engine is coming out and we have a set of shortys waiting to go on. So maybe we'll take the opportunity to order a few other things as well.

Also, if anyone has a good 5.0 near Oregon, let me know, please! We need to do something here...

Thanks for any help - I'm the designated point man on this and have to steer the ship, so your educated opinions mean a great deal.


Thomas

 

[Fett]

Is it running, or is there internal damage? If it's just a matter of changing the chain....go get a double roller kit and do it yourself. Very easy install with the motor in place. Remove front accessories and brackets, remove water pump (replace), remove front cover, take off rollers and chain, reinstall. I sure as hell wouldn't pay $1300 for a timing chain replacement.

 

[Fuzzylogic]

Thanks for the fast reply! It does seem a little much to do the job - but that seems to be par for the course for mechanics in our area...

It's not running at all... We were told the engine had to be pulled because their would be plastic/metal shards from the chain inside parts of the engine, such as the oil pan, which would require removal of the engine to get everything out.

 

[RYC CUKR]

As long as there is no internal damage then a timing chain swap is pretty simple and $1300 is WAAYYYYYYY more than I would pay for a timing chain swap. The engine does not need to be pulled.

Basically remove the all the front accessories from the front of the engine, PS pump, alternator, A/C compressor if there is one (you don't have to unhook it from the freon lines just unbolt it from the bracket and lay it to the side.

You'll have to remove the harmonic balancer, you'll need a balancer puller for this. You can buy one at any autoparts stores or lots of them rent them for free with a deposit.

Unbolt the water pump from the front cover, use lots of pb blaster on the water pump bolts. They have the nasty habit of breaking if you don't use a pb blaster or something like that. When you reinstall them use plenty of antiseize and you won't have to worry about that again. After the wp is off you can unbolt the front cover. There are two bolts that bolt the front cover to the oil pan from the bottom so if you are having a hard time getting it off check to make sure that they are out. You might also need to loosen up the oil pan a bit to make it easier to get the front cover off.

After the front cover is off you can see the timing chain and sprockets. basically from there it is remove the old timing chain and install the new cam and crank sprockets. Line up the dots on each sprocket with each other and install the timing chain. I like the FRPP double roller chain. It comes with install instructions (they start after you have removed the old timing chain and detail how to install the new one). Its a nice piece and costs around $70 IIRC.

There are plenty of guys on the boards who have done this so if you get into doing it and have questions there are plenty of people here who can help.


If however you are planning an engine rebuild I would ditch the 86 engine and get an 87-92 HO engine. Better heads and with out the flat top pistons there is a better selection of aftermarket heads if you decide to upgrade in the future i.e. TFS twisted wedgeheads.

 

[RYC CUKR]

Thanks for the fast reply! It does seem a little much to do the job - but that seems to be par for the course for mechanics in our area...

It's not running at all... We were told the engine had to be pulled because their would be plastic/metal shards from the chain inside parts of the engine, such as the oil pan, which would require removal of the engine to get everything out.

Really how do they know how bad it is until they pull the front cover?

At that point I would just locate another 5.0 HO engine and swap it out with the one that is in there now. It can be done for a lot cheaper than $1300. Provided you are the one doing the labor. Check the classifieds here and I would also check the classifieds on Corral.net and call around to some bone yards in your area.

 

[irish]

1300?

You should be able to rebuild the entire motor for that much, I found a nice set of heads for 500, and did the rest of the motor for 1000 but I did everything....try a different garage?

 

[Fuzzylogic]

Well, we found another shop that said they could do it for $400 since it does not require taking the engine out. But the previous shop said there would be fragments from the chain in the oil pan - any truth to that or a way to check without taking the engine out?

 

[RYC CUKR]

Until the front cover is pulled there is really no way that they can tell for certain that there is trash in the pan. They you can get a look at the chain and see if there are teeth missing, broken chain or what other damage there is. Even then most of the trash would be in the front sump which you might be able to get out with the front cover off. If worst came to worst you can unbolt the mounts, raise the engine some, unbolt the pan and try to clean it out that way. You won't be able to get the pan all the way off but I would imagine that you might be able to get enough access to do some checking and cleaning. I know its tight and you can't really get the pan out with the engine still in the car.

 

[goodfastncheap]

I would approach this problem exactly the way RYC suggests. I have lots of little homespun magnetic pick up tools in my toolbox that would probably help. Do NOT pay somebody to change your TC!

Edit...I guess I'm just a little curious, how did that first shop come up with the diagnosis of a broken timing chain? What exactly did they tell you about it?

 

[BK_CAULEY]

i agree with good fast and cheap. how do they know. one easy way to tell is take the dizzy cap off and turn the motor over and by hand with a socket and breaker bar(or something of the nature) and see if the rotor is turning. you can also use this method to see if there is to much excess slack in the chain. If you are turning it over and it takes a second for the rotor to move and you go the opposite way and it doesnt move for a second again there is to much slack. and dont pay nobody to do it. i changed mine in about 6 hours by myself its not that hard. you can even leave the alternator stuff on.

 

[Fuzzylogic]

You guys have been a great help. I'm printing this page out and heading over there tomorrow night so we'll be able to do some of what you guys suggested and see where we're heading with this. I could smack my brother at this point, heh.

Do you think there's the possibility that when it broke the pistons started banging into the valves and caused some problems there? My brother lent it to an idiot who probably drove it or kept trying to start it or revving - or who knows what - when the chain went.

 

[Fuzzylogic]

Well, my Dad just had it towed to another shop where the guy said he could fix the chain and guarantee it for a year for $450. The last mechanic said he was sure there was no piston/valve damage and that the chain was not broken. The new mechanic says he'll check all that as well.

So, that might fix the problem and be guaranteed for a year, but I'm trying to convince him that we should just do the chain ourselves over a weekend and save the $450. If we're going to spend $450, we might as well just find a lower-mile 5.0 to plug in for basically the same price, probably even less.

 

[goodfastncheap]

Please, just do this yourself - there's nothing tricky at all about it. If indeed the problem is your timing chain...you should turn the motor by hand with a valve cover off, also the cap off your dist. If your chain is just stretched it's not likely that you wouldn't be able to get your car started at all.

 

[Maryland Stang]

Let me add that the pushrods will usually bend before there is any valve or piston damage. You can pull the valve covers and take a quick look at the pushrods to see if they're bent. I once spun the cam of a AMC 290 V-8 engine due to a bad chain and it bent about 6 of the pushrods. I replaced the chain and pushrods and the car ran like new.