Horsepower in 05 and impact on sales

[Ron Jeremy]

I just hate rice imports. Period. I never liked them because they are small ugly deathtraps. And they are overpriced. I'll stick with the Mustang GT.

 

[tylers65]

I just hate rice imports. Period. I never liked them because they are small ugly deathtraps. And they are overpriced. I'll stick with the Mustang GT.

You have absolutely no factual data to back up any of your claimed "dislikes" do you? A STI is actually bdamn near the same length as a Mustang, seats 4 far more comfortably and has an extremly high safety rating. So I guess your only real argument for hating a car is based on your own biased perseptions of what is and is not appealing to the masses.

I have little time or patience for those who cannot back up a claim with factual data. Show me how either of these cars are "deathtraps", "small", or "over priced" and I will gladly apologize and move along.

Besides, didn't your mother ever tell you that "hate" is a strong word?

 

[tylers65]

Just to sweeten the pot....

http://www.subaru.com/servlet/showr...and=research&model=IMPREZA&trim=WRX_STI_SEDAN

 

[Ron Jeremy]

I will tell you again. I don't like ricer imports. I don't care about backing up my claim. It will not change the fact that all ricer imports are ugly and wanna be muscle cars to the crowd who likes wearing wide baggy pants and ski caps. The ricer crowd who drive these ugly cars look as atrocious with what they wear as do the ricer import wanna be muscle cars that they drive.

 

[SVTdriver]

maybe it worked for you but the link didn't work for me.

 

[tylers65]

It will not change the fact that ricers are ugly and wanna be muscle cars to the crowd who likes wearing wide baggy pants and ski caps.

Again with the "Facts" without data. This is nothing more than a sign of ignorance and/or laziness. I even did half of the work for you and you still cannot back up you unsubstantiated claims of "facts". If you are going to tell me about facts, at least back them up.

I guess what I am trying to say is put up or shut up. I am just trying to do it in a diplomatic way.

 

[tylers65]

Furthermore, in both this and the "2006 Cobra Pricing" thread, you keep claiming things to be "overpriced". I repeat my statement... It is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Is $40,000 too much for a 500HP Cobra? NO! Why? Because I can afford one and will buy one. Overpriced is generally a term used by those who cannot afford something but are too proud to admit it.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Hey all the power to you if you want to overpay for a Cobra. I just don't buy cars the way you do. I look for good deals. And it's not because I cannot afford to buy a Cobra. It's because I am not an idiot to overpay for a piece of sheet metal on wheels that will depreciate 10%-20% the minute I drive it off the lot.

You are free to do what you want and I am free to do what I want. I like the Cobra and GT Mustang, but I NEVER overpaid for any vehicles which I ever purchased and I never intend to.


And as for backing up my claims, I don't care about backing up my claims. I am only giving you opinions about the Cobra and GT which are very logical. You can beleive me or not. I could care less. I am fixated on my opinions and that's that. If you don't like it cap it.

 

[tylers65]

Hey all the power to you if you want to overpay for a Cobra. I just don't buy cars the way you do. I look for good deals. And it's not because I cannot afford to buy a Cobra. It's because I am not an idiot to overpay for a piece of sheet metal on wheels that will depreciate 10%-20% the minute I drive it off the lot.

You are free to do what you want and I am free to do what I want. I like the Cobra and GT Mustang, but I NEVER overpaid for any vehicles which I ever purchased and I never intend to.


And as for backing up my claims, I don't care about backing up my claims. I am only giving you opinions about the Cobra and GT which are very logical. You can beleive me or not. I could care less. I am fixated on my opinions and that's that. If you don't like it cap it.

Funny, I have never over paid for a vehicle in my life. The though of over paying for something is a perseption much like beauty. It is in the eye of the beholder. My Father-in-Law sells Fords and I get every car I guy on th "D Plan".

I too believe that the STI and EVO fit into a certain demographic that is stereotyped as "ricers". But to say they are death traps when they have more standard safety features than a Mustang is out right silly. Mustangs explode when rear ended hard enough. To say they are smaller than a Mustang when they are nearly the same size and actually accomodate passangers better is totally unfounded. To call them Wanna be Muscle cars when they are not even in the same catagory as a muscle car is based solely on opinion and not reason or logic. To call them ugly and claim it as fact has no logic or reason behind it.

I promise you that if the 2006 Cobra is priced at $40,000 I will pay no more than $33,000. To me that is a great deal for the amount of car you are getting. People who truly buy a car out of love of the car will not put a price on it and turn their nose up at it if it is priced $3000 more than they want to pay. If they truly want that car, they will pay the price. Paying too much is a matter of opinion. If I did pay $40,000 for it, I would still feel as though I was getting a good deal. I feel as though you cannot put a price on a dream. I dream of a 2006 Cobra. I am willing to pay the price to live that dream. Others will too.

 

[SVTdriver]

Not to defend anyone. But I generally feel that the Ford dealers in Seattle are over pricing the mustangs. Pierre ford inlake city has a $7995 adjusted market price add on.Or Kirkland Ford with it at $2995. Now other than that I feel the Cobra so far is a very good deal.

 

[tylers65]

Not to defend anyone. But I generally feel that the Ford dealers in Seattle are over pricing the mustangs. Pierre ford inlake city has a $7995 adjusted market price add on.Or Kirkland Ford with it at $2995. Now other than that I feel the Cobra so far is a very good deal.

That is only because they are within King county and Seattle city limits. They have exceptionally high taxes which = overhead. I buy from Riverside Ford in Sumner. They have a lot less overhead and... well... I am related to a salesman. The D-plan sure is nice. We bought a 2002 Escape XLT V6 fully loaded in October of 2001. It had an MSRP of $25,000 an asking price of $29,950. The dealership paid $23,000 for it, and we paid $21,000 for it out the door. Can't really complain about that.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Tyler,
It's good to know that someone else here likes to buy wholesale and not pay the full sticker price for a new car. For a minute there you got me in a few of your past posts. I thought that you were a full retail buying customer. Whew! I feel better now that I know that you are a smart cookie. Not many smart people out there anymore you know.

 

[SVTdriver]

You probably know more than I sinceyou are related to a salesperson. But what does the market adjustment have to do with taxes. They add the taxes on after that. The 10th anniversary cobra was like $42k

 

[Rootus]

You probably know more than I sinceyou are related to a salesperson. But what does the market adjustment have to do with taxes. They add the taxes on after that. The 10th anniversary cobra was like $42k

The "market adjustment" is such a load of crap. There is a local Ford dealer to me that has *one* '03 Cobra on the lot, brand new -- not sure how, they're not an SVT dealer -- and they have it marked up $7500. Right next to it they have a Mach 1 marked up $5000. Every other dealer in town has dropped the pretense, and doesn't even bother trying to mark them up any more. The closest SVT dealer currently has 20 '03 Cobras and 5 '04 Cobras. I'd drive the 200 miles from Seattle to save $$$ before paying mark-up.

Dave

 

[TrueBlueCajun]

I'm so happy to live in Fla. A 10th Anniversary Cobra Coupe costs $29,500.00 and a Vert ran $32,500.00. We got Mach 1s running $22,500.00. My recommendation is to go purchase a vehicle in another state and drive the car back home. I've talked to a few salesmen here in Tampa that say they had people from California buying cars and driving them home. $300 plane ticket,$23,000.00 car, and a lovely 4500 mile break-in period all in 3 days. Probably saved $4000.00

 

[tylers65]

You probably know more than I sinceyou are related to a salesperson. But what does the market adjustment have to do with taxes. They add the taxes on after that. The 10th anniversary cobra was like $42k

The mark up on a 10th anniversary Cobra has nothing to do with overhead. The reason they are able to do this to these particular cars is one of the things I was speaking of earlier. A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. When the PT Cruiser first came out, I was seeing them sticker for as high as $32,000 and you know what, people were actually paying that for them.

Overhead is built into everything you buy. If you use a telephone, you are not just paying for the use of the bandwidth that is needed to operate it. You are paying extra charges to pay the technicians benefits and the power to keep the lights on in the offices. There are 2 (generally) different types of costs built into the price one pays for any type of service or merchandise.

Overhead = The cost of thing that are not needed to provide a particular good or service such as the salary for a CEO. The CEO does not maintain the telephone lines or install them. He does not answer the phone when you call customer support.

Operations costs - These are cost that set the base price of a car. It pays for the people that built it, it pays for the materials it was built from.

Market Adjustment - This is simply a tool used to fix the price for any given good or service according to what the demand for that good or service is.
Example: The 2000 Cobra R. With only 300 built, Ford was able to ask nearly $60,000 for a Mustang with a bigger engine some new body pieces and and upgreaded suspension. The car was stripped of radio, A/C, back seat, and sound deadening materials. So in some respects you would be paying more for less car. There really wasn't anything so special about the car that could not be doone in the aftermarket, but it was a limited edition car. People were paying full price and then some because there were only 300 of them. Supply and demand. Value and worth.

SVTdriver, to answer your question regarding the difference in price VS location, In Seattle, there is a higher demand for cars such as the SVT Cobra because there is a more diverse culture in a City that size. There is also a larger population. If there are only so many dealerships in the Seattle metro area, then the can get away with marking up the price to adjust to the demand of the car.
In Sumner, it is still a growing farming community in what is still considered the "country". In this type of community, they primarily sell trucks. They have few Mustangs on the lot and you would have to have them trade with another dealership to get you what you want. Where this is a time consuming process, it is also worth the pay off. Not only do you get the car you want for the price you want, but all you had to do was go and tell them what you want and they do all of the searching for you. This falls into the "Value VS worth" catagory. Is the car WORTH $42,000? No, it is not. But is there a VALUE of $42,000 in knowing you got the car you wanted without the hassle of searching for it and dealing with a smaller, more pleasent dealership. To me, sometime4s a good salesman is worth paying a little extra for.

Sorry I got so long winded, but I deal with overhead and operations costs a lot. Some times I forget when to stop.

 

[66Satellite]

The mark up on a 10th anniversary Cobra has nothing to do with overhead. The reason they are able to do this to these particular cars is one of the things I was speaking of earlier. A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. When the PT Cruiser first came out, I was seeing them sticker for as high as $32,000 and you know what, people were actually paying that for them.

Overhead is built into everything you buy. If you use a telephone, you are not just paying for the use of the bandwidth that is needed to operate it. You are paying extra charges to pay the technicians benefits and the power to keep the lights on in the offices. There are 2 (generally) different types of costs built into the price one pays for any type of service or merchandise.

Overhead = The cost of thing that are not needed to provide a particular good or service such as the salary for a CEO. The CEO does not maintain the telephone lines or install them. He does not answer the phone when you call customer support.

Operations costs - These are cost that set the base price of a car. It pays for the people that built it, it pays for the materials it was built from.

Market Adjustment - This is simply a tool used to fix the price for any given good or service according to what the demand for that good or service is.
Example: The 2000 Cobra R. With only 300 built, Ford was able to ask nearly $60,000 for a Mustang with a bigger engine some new body pieces and and upgreaded suspension. The car was stripped of radio, A/C, back seat, and sound deadening materials. So in some respects you would be paying more for less car. There really wasn't anything so special about the car that could not be doone in the aftermarket, but it was a limited edition car. People were paying full price and then some because there were only 300 of them. Supply and demand. Value and worth.

SVTdriver, to answer your question regarding the difference in price VS location, In Seattle, there is a higher demand for cars such as the SVT Cobra because there is a more diverse culture in a City that size. There is also a larger population. If there are only so many dealerships in the Seattle metro area, then the can get away with marking up the price to adjust to the demand of the car.
In Sumner, it is still a growing farming community in what is still considered the "country". In this type of community, they primarily sell trucks. They have few Mustangs on the lot and you would have to have them trade with another dealership to get you what you want. Where this is a time consuming process, it is also worth the pay off. Not only do you get the car you want for the price you want, but all you had to do was go and tell them what you want and they do all of the searching for you. This falls into the "Value VS worth" catagory. Is the car WORTH $42,000? No, it is not. But is there a VALUE of $42,000 in knowing you got the car you wanted without the hassle of searching for it and dealing with a smaller, more pleasent dealership. To me, sometime4s a good salesman is worth paying a little extra for.

Sorry I got so long winded, but I deal with overhead and operations costs a lot. Some times I forget when to stop.

Good info Tyler. So if you want say a green/black 5 speed GT vert and the Sumner dealer doesn't have it on the lot, what will they tell you and how do you negotiate the price?

 

[JadeFalcon]

This is a double edged sword...

Ford has sold a lot of Mustangs, majority of them being the V6.. Does the average Mustang owner care about neck snapping acceleration? I don't think so.. The Mustang appeals to a lot of people's needs. Nice powerful engine, good looks, good every day performance and most importantly AFFORDABLE. Ford wants to cater to the masses, not to the select few HP junkies (which they do, in the form of a Cobra). It's all about getting as many sales as they can.

With that said, Ford will peak some people's interest in the projected 300 HP.. But how will that figure impact insurance rates? Especially for younger male drivers who seem to be the typical GT owner? How will that number impact overall price of the vehicle? This might make it out of the reach for some drivers, cutting into sales of the GT some.. No doubt, the 05 will sell.. But I do see sales tampering off big (at least in GT's) after the first year due to what I just mentioned. Big HP numbers does not equate to big sales, Ford found that out in the 90's.

Ford has sold the Mustang on looks and thats how they won the pony car war with GM. If HP numbers were the factor, we'd be driving around Camaros.

Ok I threw out some questions for you guys to think about. Costs might not even be a factor, but it's something to consider.

I don't agree with any of this. 300hp is just a slight bump up from previous, people will be more pleased with a higher quality vehicle. The mustang had to get more power. Cadillacs come with more than 300 horses now, mercedes have 500hp, power levels are increasing, and the mustang must also. If you didn't notice, the nissan maxima and altima had the same power as a GT. The older GT's power level was becoming almost embarassing to ford. Horsepower is a BIG marketing factor now, the golden day of muscle cars and horsepower wars are stronger then they have EVER been.

 

[tylers65]

Good info Tyler. So if you want say a green/black 5 speed GT vert and the Sumner dealer doesn't have it on the lot, what will they tell you and how do you negotiate the price?

Negotiating a price is the exact same as negotiating for a car that is sitting right there on the lot.

Scenario.

I walk onto the lot...

Salesman: How can I help you?
Me: I am looking for XXXX car but don't see one on the lot.

The salesperson will usually come out and tell you that they can get one from another dealership. The rest just follows with the normal car buying proceedures. They will tell you they found one, it has certain options and a certain MSRP. You negotiate from there.

 

[Snake03]

I will tell you again. I don't like ricer imports.

We know that, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I wouldn't buy them, but I can respect the fact that they run like snot.

I don't care about backing up my claim.

Opinions don't really need to be backed up since they are simply opinions. OTOH the claims you are making appear a bit absurd. It's been my experience that people who say they don't have to back up their claims are blustering because they can't.

It will not change the fact that all ricer imports are ugly and wanna be muscle cars ................

No, they are not. You've been told what a "muscle car" is. Were you even around when they were manufactured? If so you wouldn't be calling either of these a "would be muscle car".