Is there such a thing as a "Factory Freak"?

[5spd GT]

4.10 gears,pullies,70mm t/b,76mm mass air,elec. fan,k&n panel filter,adj. fuel reg. set @28psi and timing @14 degrees,bbk shorty headers,h-pipe,super turbo muffs with dumps,sub frame con.,driveshaft loop,rebuilt tranny with valvebody and clutches and mech diode drum,9.5" edge converter with 3000 stall,steeda hardcore upper and lower control arms,lowering springs in rear and drag springs in front with cheap monroe shocks and struts. amer. racer g60 tires dot legal,weld draglights
weight removed-front and rear sway bars,dog bone on rearend,tail pipes,smog pump,spare jack and sound mat. in this form it ran 13.35@99mph in perfect weather. then went back after removing p/s and went 13.34@99mph in poor weather.

ive since removed the a/c, fog light mounts and bar and moved battery to the rear and put a fiber glasshood on.now i hope to run a 13.299 in good weather.

Your times are totally believable...willys1...I bet if you did every bit of that and your car weighed the same as his you would get those times...

FastGT94 - I did not see a weight on the clutch fork...I looked quickly when I did but didn't see one (I'll double check tonight after work)...Yeah the clutch cable was to loose causing the quadrant to vibrate which made the pedal vibrate...

 

[willys1]

I'LL post my mods in a couple of hours,I gotta go to soccer practice!! Come on guys you can say it,,,,,,,,,,,FACTORY FREAK

 

[Highbredcloud]

I have a set of GT-40 (1.84/1.54) valves in the heads, but they are not ported (I can get pictures to varify this at my house). It has 1.7 rockers, stock bottem end, stock cam, Cobra intake, 65mm TB, 75mm MAF, Mac CAI, stock inj. AFPR, LTs, Prochamber, Catback, and pulleys. I agree, no reason to lie, and I have a few people who can back me up on this (StangLX, ERnotch, etc...), but these people all also run extremely good times for the mods (go figure)! Car weighs 3150+ to make class rules, has all options, 2001 leather seats, and such!

As far as you running a second slower, Im sure he has more converter, better tranny parts or something. Add in a better track, cooler air and whatnot and you have a great combo. Also dead hooking isnt always good, might bog the motor and kill it, this is what happened to my AOD with a 2400 stall and 3.73s. Car trapped 97-98 but ran low 14s with 2.2+ 60's dead hooking!

Its ALL in the conbo and getting it all tuned and working right!

Well not exactly the ET's you mentioned with stock heads are they now...However, I still don't see how a pair of GT-40 iron heads right out of the box along with all your bolt ons make 272 RWHP...with the stock cam...Your setup is pretty much the same as a 93 Cobra minus the cam and the LT's and the pro-chamber and the pullies...I saw many 93 Cobras stock except for exhaust make between 230-245RWHP but that is it...you figure flywheel HP would be somewhere at 265-275 flywheel HP...where do you get the extra 20RWHP? I have a setup with GT-40X heads which have been ported and polished with a ported GT-40 intake and a FTI cam along with the rest of the bolt ones and I didn't break 300RWHP on a stock bottom 302...something is not right here...I also have another set-up with CNC ported GT-40 iron heads...I actually got them from a buddy of mine that runs in a class...ported Cobra intake an a stage II TrickFlow cam with the rest of the bolt ons on a 306 which made even less than my aluminum setup...Maybe you could see why I am having a hard time believing such numbers...with the amount of mods that you have...If you have something else done but don't want to say that's cool...people do have their secrets but don't say you're getting all this power and running those times from stock castings because that is just not cool...it's more misleading info than anything...

 

[Highbredcloud]

4.10 gears,pullies,70mm t/b,76mm mass air,elec. fan,k&n panel filter,adj. fuel reg. set @28psi and timing @14 degrees,bbk shorty headers,h-pipe,super turbo muffs with dumps,sub frame con.,driveshaft loop,rebuilt tranny with valvebody and clutches and mech diode drum,9.5" edge converter with 3000 stall,steeda hardcore upper and lower control arms,lowering springs in rear and drag springs in front with cheap monroe shocks and struts. amer. racer g60 tires dot legal,weld draglights
weight removed-front and rear sway bars,dog bone on rearend,tail pipes,smog pump,spare jack and sound mat. in this form it ran 13.35@99mph in perfect weather. then went back after removing p/s and went 13.34@99mph in poor weather.

ive since removed the a/c, fog light mounts and bar and moved battery to the rear and put a fiber glasshood on.now i hope to run a 13.299 in good weather.

How much does your car weigh? I have a stripped down notch with more work than yours includind suspension running your times...I don't get it...could possible brake into 12's with a better driver and lower 60ft..I just can't drive like others but that doesn't mean that i suck...

 

[25thmustang]

Highbread learn to READ what I typed...

Stock heads, unported with valves in them NOTTTT GT-40 heads. My dads car has GT-40P heads, ran 12.30 with stock bottem end, and a Cobra intake...

So again it is what i claimed it to be, stock as in E7TE heads.

My motor is nothing secret, and I can see that it bothers you that my simple combo runs better than your great aftermarket combo. I am a 19 year old kid who picked and chose his parts wisely, dynoed it (not for numbers but to tune it because it ran like crap) and got some numbers. I hate posting my dyno numbers, as some people just wont leave them alone. Instead of saying nice work, and congradulationg me for what I do, you continue to think I am lying about my motor! Oh well, keep thinking what ever you want, its my motor, I told everyone whats been done, listed the dyno numbers and timeslips... Not much more I can do, if you dont want to believe me, dont, Ill be happy either way! Wait till I have the stock heads, intake and cam and try for the 11s NA, cant wait to see what the non believers say then.

 

[25thmustang]

How much does your car weigh? I have a stripped down notch with more work than yours includind suspension running your times...I don't get it...could possible brake into 12's with a better driver and lower 60ft..I just can't drive like others but that doesn't mean that i suck...

You said it yourself, the driving. If you dont drive it hard you wont run the number, doesnt mean it cant, just means you cant! Let a pro get a few runs, watch the times plummit, and then you will see, one of the best mods for a car is a good driver!

 

[Highbredcloud]

Highbread learn to READ what I typed...

Stock heads, unported with valves in them NOTTTT GT-40 heads. My dads car has GT-40P heads, ran 12.30 with stock bottem end, and a Cobra intake...

So again it is what i claimed it to be, stock as in E7TE heads.

My motor is nothing secret, and I can see that it bothers you that my simple combo runs better than your great aftermarket combo. I am a 19 year old kid who picked and chose his parts wisely, dynoed it (not for numbers but to tune it because it ran like crap) and got some numbers. I hate posting my dyno numbers, as some people just wont leave them alone. Instead of saying nice work, and congradulationg me for what I do, you continue to think I am lying about my motor! Oh well, keep thinking what ever you want, its my motor, I told everyone whats been done, listed the dyno numbers and timeslips... Not much more I can do, if you dont want to believe me, dont, Ill be happy either way! Wait till I have the stock heads, intake and cam and try for the 11s NA, cant wait to see what the non believers say then.

My bad...I misread your fist line as in regards to the heads...Listen I'm not trying to rain on your parade here...but the numbers from your combo seem to be way off...There is nothing special about your setup that need careful research...and or development...One thing that interests me is your choice of the GT-40 valves...I would have went bigger to 1.9/1.6 but that is just me...what I am interested in is if you had a valve job to obtain your dyno numbers? There is now way just by changing your vavles you picked up that much hp with the rest of your boltons...no matter how wise you think you are...it's just not gonna happen...I can't explain how you obtained your numbers except that maybe the dyno is wrong...I'm hoping you can give me a better explanation than just saying a setup chosen wisely...I did my research on stock ported castings especially powerheads which are CNC ported heads with the bigger intake valves...1.90 on intake and 1.60 on exhaust...I spoke with the owner Ralph Pici over at powerheads which was really helpful since he told me that his heads with an E-Cam or similar lift cam along with a GT-40 style intake or the stock upper with a systemax 1 lower at best will run low 13's...with a good driver...There was an article floating around somewhere where they did a test with powerheads along the rest of the bolt ons and didn't get more than mid 13's out of it...point here being is that powerheads are hogged out heads than what you have...yet you are making about the same power with stock castings the only difference being is GT-40 valves...? I have seen many combos that one wouldn't think would run with the best of them, however, not box stock...There are many guys running ported GT-40/ GT40p heads out there with success but those heads are heavily ported/polished even milled for extra compression...I just don't see how all this can be done on stock castings...

 

[dstanggt50]

My bad...I misread your fist line as in regards to the heads...Listen I'm not trying to rain on your parade here...but the numbers from your combo seem to be way off...There is nothing special about your setup that need careful research...and or development...One thing that interests me is your choice of the GT-40 valves...I would have went bigger to 1.9/1.6 but that is just me...what I am interested in is if you had a valve job to obtain your dyno numbers? There is now way just by changing your vavles you picked up that much hp with the rest of your boltons...no matter how wise you think you are...it's just not gonna happen...I can't explain how you obtained your numbers except that maybe the dyno is wrong...I'm hoping you can give me a better explanation than just saying a setup chosen wisely...I did my research on stock ported castings especially powerheads which are CNC ported heads with the bigger intake valves...1.90 on intake and 1.60 on exhaust...I spoke with the owner Ralph Pici over at powerheads which was really helpful since he told me that his heads with an E-Cam or similar lift cam along with a GT-40 style intake or the stock upper with a systemax 1 lower at best will run low 13's...with a good driver...There was an article floating around somewhere where they did a test with powerheads along the rest of the bolt ons and didn't get more than mid 13's out of it...point here being is that powerheads are hogged out heads than what you have...yet you are making about the same power with stock castings the only difference being is GT-40 valves...? I have seen many combos that one wouldn't think would run with the best of them, however, not box stock...There are many guys running ported GT-40/ GT40p heads out there with success but those heads are heavily ported/polished even milled for extra compression...I just don't see how all this can be done on stock castings...

I was thinkin the same thing. Don't wanna jump on his numbers, but if it was that easy just by adding larger valves, you would think a lot of people would be doing this. I tried lookin at your link, nice car, didn't really search to much but are your dyno sheets there??? Not trying to start anything, just wanted to chk them out

 

[willys1]

Dam,you guys got some long replys,heres my mods,I just have bolt-ons,Dense charger cai,,65mm accufab,,T-moss lower intake,,FMS unequal headers,,stock h-pipe,,bassani cat back,,screamin demon Ign. system,,Kirben FpR set at 35lbs.,,and the rest is in my sig.

 

[5spd GT]

Willys1: This is why you aren't getting the times because you have:

Dense charger cai,,65mm accufab,,T-moss lower intake,,FMS unequal headers,bassani cat back,screamin demon Ign. system,Kirben FpR, 410's, 2800stall...

And here is rsw007's:

4.10 gears,pullies,70mm t/b,76mm mass air,elec. fan,k&n panel filter,adj. fuel reg. set @28psi and timing @14 degrees,bbk shorty headers,h-pipe,super turbo muffs with dumps,sub frame con.,driveshaft loop,rebuilt tranny with valvebody and clutches and mech diode drum,9.5" edge converter with 3000 stall,steeda hardcore upper and lower control arms,lowering springs in rear and drag springs in front with cheap monroe shocks and struts. amer. racer g60 tires dot legal,weld draglights
weight removed-front and rear sway bars,dog bone on rearend,tail pipes,smog pump,spare jack and sound mat.

Over you he has got a built AOD, difference in FP, bigger TB, bigger MAF, fan, h-pipe, dumps, slightly bigger stall, a little drag suspension, less weight, weld draglites...etc...

Thanks for posting the mods...

No factory freak there...

 

[25thmustang]

I dont have my dyno numbers on my site, because to any real racer dynos are nothing but tools to tune the car. I had no expectations when going other than to leave with more power (259 when i got there, 272 when I left) and I did. I know all about GT-40 heads as I wanted to run them, but didnt have the money!

I am glad my car surprises people, but in my eyes I dont care what the dyno says, I am more worried about track times, and as it sits its right where it should be!

As for the power head guy, thats him covering himself. if he says youll run 12s and you dont youll be mad. I have seen stock motored cars (ERnotch is a good friend) go 12.7-12.8s, so Im sure a set of ported heads on his car would run deep 12s!

As for the valves, I cant go with 1.9s for class rules. Heads up racing kils what you can and cant do, thats why they arent ported, wouldnt be allowed to run!

I will be at Etown this weekend for any NJ non believers! Come stop by and say hello!

 

[Jman142]

My bad...I misread your fist line as in regards to the heads...Listen I'm not trying to rain on your parade here...but the numbers from your combo seem to be way off...There is nothing special about your setup that need careful research...and or development...One thing that interests me is your choice of the GT-40 valves...I would have went bigger to 1.9/1.6 but that is just me...what I am interested in is if you had a valve job to obtain your dyno numbers? There is now way just by changing your vavles you picked up that much hp with the rest of your boltons...no matter how wise you think you are...it's just not gonna happen...I can't explain how you obtained your numbers except that maybe the dyno is wrong...I'm hoping you can give me a better explanation than just saying a setup chosen wisely...I did my research on stock ported castings especially powerheads which are CNC ported heads with the bigger intake valves...1.90 on intake and 1.60 on exhaust...I spoke with the owner Ralph Pici over at powerheads which was really helpful since he told me that his heads with an E-Cam or similar lift cam along with a GT-40 style intake or the stock upper with a systemax 1 lower at best will run low 13's...with a good driver...There was an article floating around somewhere where they did a test with powerheads along the rest of the bolt ons and didn't get more than mid 13's out of it...point here being is that powerheads are hogged out heads than what you have...yet you are making about the same power with stock castings the only difference being is GT-40 valves...? I have seen many combos that one wouldn't think would run with the best of them, however, not box stock...There are many guys running ported GT-40/ GT40p heads out there with success but those heads are heavily ported/polished even milled for extra compression...I just don't see how all this can be done on stock castings...

As a good friend of brians I can vouch for everything he did. He has no tricks what so ever, because if he did he wouldnt be able to run in his class. The main factor that is boggling your mind is simple. Its DRIVING. I have yet to see someone come close to shifting as fast and as smooth as him. He took a low 13's car into the 12.9's. And he took multplie cars down a few tenths if not more, and making the other owners of the car feel estatic that the car had that much in it.

 

[dstanggt50]

I dont have my dyno numbers on my site, because to any real racer dynos are nothing but tools to tune the car. I had no expectations when going other than to leave with more power (259 when i got there, 272 when I left) and I did. I know all about GT-40 heads as I wanted to run them, but didnt have the money!

I am glad my car surprises people, but in my eyes I dont care what the dyno says, I am more worried about track times, and as it sits its right where it should be!

well, I don't think I ever stated anything about doubting your times, just wanted to see what the curve was like and everything. I'm looking into another stang for daily driving, and wanted to keep the stock heads and cam, and was impressed w/the numbers.

 

[5spd GT]

Hey 25thMustang...I believe I drive pretty well...my friends are always telling everybody how well I can shift and all that...but I know I can get faster...this may sound strange but how do you do it...where is the timing of your foot on the clutch pedal and shifting take place (know what I mean?)...and don't tell me just to practice ...I don't think it is good to practice (at my power level with my "old" trans ) to much...do you like keep your foot slightly on the pedal (do you push it all the way in when shifting...do you powershift...etc...any tips welcome

 

[rsw007]

mine weighted 3280 with me when i ran 13.35 dont know what it weights now i hope 3190

 

[davs5.0]

Dam,you guys got some long replys,heres my mods,I just have bolt-ons,Dense charger cai,,65mm accufab,,T-moss lower intake,,FMS unequal headers,,stock h-pipe,,bassani cat back,,screamin demon Ign. system,,Kirben FpR set at 35lbs.,,and the rest is in my sig.

Willys, if you're looking for some better times out of your combo, get into your exhaust and converter. Stock H-pipe as in catted. Huge restriction. Borrow someone's h-pipe or x-pipe, take off the cat back for the track. It should pick up a bit. RSW007 and I both run Edge converters and you wouldn't believe what a difference they make. I ran 13.80's with my combo(since removed to get 331 in)

 

[04sleeper]

I will be at Etown this weekend for any NJ non believers! Come stop by and say hello!

I believe that your times are legit. Especially comming from E-town. I grew up in Old Bridge. I used to race BMX in the parking lot of the race track. There used to be a BMX track there. That was back in the early 80's.
Anyway E-town is one of the best tracks there is. Period! My car is similar to yours except my heads have never been off and has stock valves with 130,000 miles on them. I also run stock headers. I have never had good tires on my car but I know what it is capable of because I have been racing Mustangs since 1988. I have only been to the track with my coupe about 3 or 4 times and never powershifted it. It was also at Moroso Motorsports Park in FL which is not the best track to run on if anyone is familiar with it.
I'm sure that with good tires, icing the intake, ripping the belt off, and powershifting I could get 107. Maybe better with a better track.
So I can easily see how your car runs those numbers.
There are a lot of people in NJ that run in that type of class and they all run fast. It sounds like you are on the right track with your car and if you keep it up I'm sure you will reach 11's. Especially with the knowledge of shops around your area.
Keep up the good work!

Kevin

 

[25thmustang]

Thanks for the compliments, and I might be able to get a graph up this weekend if I find ANY time.

As fir the driving, I put my right foot to the floor and never lift. I keep my hand behind (or in front of) the shifter and get ready (preload) for the next gear! When the light comes on I stab the clutch (until it releases) which is about half way down for my car, and hit the next gear. My style on the track is all out, go for broke. I go as hard as I can, I never worry about a shift and just slam the next gear. It has worked so far and driving other cars with no practice this style even worked there.

Actually the car has a new bottem end now (stock 95,000 mile 95 GT bottem end) because the one in it I believe has a bad wrist pin or two. Was making a ton of noise, so we pulled it out! Ill see if the 95 short block helps, hurts, or does anything.

 

[cleanLX]

Mine dyno'd 218hp/288tq with K'n'N filter, and off-road H pipe. That was all.
Ran 13.2's @ 100.8mph(3.73's) on 235 drag radials and pony's all around. No weigh removal, and no suspension mod's... sea level.

With headers, 2-1/2" exhaust, 76mm MAM and UD's it dyno'd 232hp/292tq
Ran 12.96 @ 104.0mph(4.10's) with et streets, skinnies, no weight removal, no suspension mods... 2600 d/a conditions. (That's 12.6's @ ~108 sea level)

Given that, and rsw007's and ERNotch's(12.7's T5, Corral) stock motor performance...and that the typical 5.0 makes 190hp 280tq with bolt ons, I believe that some are put together with all of the 'Y tolerances' (mentioned about 2 pages back) at the factory.

Freak... dunno... but definatly some are stronger than others.

 

[willys1]

Willys1: This is why you aren't getting the times because you have:

Dense charger cai,,65mm accufab,,T-moss lower intake,,FMS unequal headers,bassani cat back,screamin demon Ign. system,Kirben FpR, 410's, 2800stall...

And here is rsw007's:

4.10 gears,pullies,70mm t/b,76mm mass air,elec. fan,k&n panel filter,adj. fuel reg. set @28psi and timing @14 degrees,bbk shorty headers,h-pipe,super turbo muffs with dumps,sub frame con.,driveshaft loop,rebuilt tranny with valvebody and clutches and mech diode drum,9.5" edge converter with 3000 stall,steeda hardcore upper and lower control arms,lowering springs in rear and drag springs in front with cheap monroe shocks and struts. amer. racer g60 tires dot legal,weld draglights
weight removed-front and rear sway bars,dog bone on rearend,tail pipes,smog pump,spare jack and sound mat.

Over you he has got a built AOD, difference in FP, bigger TB, bigger MAF, fan, h-pipe, dumps, slightly bigger stall, a little drag suspension, less weight, weld draglites...etc...

Thanks for posting the mods...

No factory freak there...

OK,i forgot a few things,I also have pullies,Pro M 75mm maf,,eibach front and rear drag springs,,torque box reinforments,,ummmm,I think thats it.You mentioned that he has a drive shaft loop and I dont.How many tenths is that worth?