Ive bitten my tongue long enough

[just4bob50]

Ok... let's take a step back then and change my suggestion to this:

Get her on the dyno and see where you're making power. 410s and an automatic may be putting your shift points beyond the usable power range of your heads and cam (thinking out loud here). Next, start looking at your entire combo and figuring out where your bottle necks are. When you've got your combo set up so that your intake and modded heads have shifted back to being your bottle neck then you'll at least know that you've squeezed all you can out of those mods.

All too often, I've looked at dyno graphs for stock headed, stock cammed, motors where the torque an HP are falling off at around 4500 RPM. If your Heads, cam, and intake, are capable of making usable power beyond that range but your exhaust is not, then yeah!... the H-pipe COULD be worth 5/10s.

It's not to point the finger soley at just one mod (or lack thereof) but to try and illustrate the potential for a lacking support item to effect the combination. How many times have you seen a magazine add boast 35HP gains from an exhaust system, only to find out that the test vehicle was already modified. Something as simple as swapping exhaust doesn't GIVE HP. All it does is free up what's already there.

I understand that you're already aware of all this stuff but I type it all out to illustrate my point. The COMBINATION is what needs to be good. Not just a select few parts of it.

Willy's 1 i agree that there is deffinatley 1 or 2 items that may be miss matched to your combo. I also think that you are on target for your power estimates if there is a good tune and all supporting mods match up. I personally have run a best of 13.52 at 101.9 w/ a 1.96 60ft. In my full weight vert. Even left the spare in the trunk. This run was done with the stock heads and cam, but with all my current intake and exhaust parts. When the car was (NA) it dynoed at 247rwhp and 290 tq. on a Dynojet dyno. I think it would be very usefull to put you car on the dyno for a few base pulls to check out where the power is being made, and to make sure your tune is as good as you think it is. Also in 90 degree weather i could only pull 13.8's and 13.9's at the track. 13.50's in 50-65 degree temps. good luck.

 

[tmoss]

i strongly disagree about the fact that that combo would make 240-260.

You need to go to the "photo" section of my website and look at some of the dyno graphs - 240-260 is definately there.

Willys - What about the cam - did you get a new chain put on when the heads were done? Was the cam degreed back in - and if so, where was the ICL placed? If it was just stuck back in "dot-to-dot" then the timing set, cam, etc could be installed at a non-optimum ICL. That will make a SIGNIFICANT difference. I love those old Willys gassers by the way.......

Edit: I wouldn't change intakes until you get to the bottom of tuning this combo and checking cam timing - unless you just want to change intakes anyway, you might spend the money and time and be dissapointed.

 

[Daggar]

Like I said before,its a proven fact that this combo is good for 240-260hp.Its been dynoed time and time again.Just ask T-Moss,or Michael Yount,or even Thumper!!

My timing was everything from stock 10 degrees to 15 degrees..

In the summer I will have a GT-40 intake,but rite now I know theres alot more here.

Just to try an clarify:

It's not your intake and heads that I suspect are keeping you from that 260 RWHP mark but the REST of the COMBINATION. Without being able to stand next to the car and point fingers at individual pieces, all I can say is that is that it doesn't look as if you have the "support" for those mods installed to get those mods to where they will produce the power you're looking for.

 

[tjm73]

That stock h-pipe is a MAJOR choke point. If any one of the cats in it are going bad, the restriction could be even worse. Ditch it. Get a MAC Power Chamber or a X-Pipe. I wish I still had my Power Chamber.

 

[5spd GT]

tjm73 - Prochamber

Willys1 - I would put it on the dyno and see what power it is putting out. I know you should get 240rwhp tuned right. Something is missing (as stated). Supporting mods might be hurting you but it shouldn't be that bad. You should be closer to the 100mph mark. Humid or not.

 

[tjm73]

tjm73 - Prochamber

Prochamber, Power Chamber, what ever the name it works!

 

[davs5.0]

just thought i would throw my 2 cents in here. You mentioned that you changed the heads and tires then ran it. That really makes it hard to do a 1-1 comparison. That being said, what kind of suspension mods have you done to the car? Is the stall a lockup or non lock? What rpms are you shifting at? what rpms are you crossing the line at?
I'd send a PM to RSW007 and ask him about his suspension. He got his AOD into the 12's with about the same mods you have but better exhaust.

 

[90mustangGT]

My thumper combo at first ran the stock 4 cat H-pipe, but the cats were in perfect condition. Take a rubber mallet or other soft hammer and tapp the cats and notice if yoiu hear any rattles from inside. If they do the cats are bad. Another way to check is to put a vacuum gauge to the intake, rev the motor to 2500rpm and hold it and if it starts to loose vacuum after intitial buildup then you have an exaust restriction. Be sure all sensor are operating properly, and if all else fails, do a leakdown and compression test.

 

[tmoss]

My cat is holding back some power too, but probably not a ton - when I got this car ~5,000 miles ago, it had never had the H pipe recall so I got a brand NEW H installed (and ignition recall) @ Ford for free - so mine is probably as good as it gets for stock H flow.

 

[gcwh02]

i have a question for you willys1, when you went to the track with the thumpers on, where you using the nittos or the hoosiers? if you used your nittos, im clueless, but if you ran the hoosiers, maybe it was too much for you? just a guess haha

 

[willys1]

You need to go to the "photo" section of my website and look at some of the dyno graphs - 240-260 is definately there.

Willys - What about the cam - did you get a new chain put on when the heads were done? Was the cam degreed back in - and if so, where was the ICL placed? If it was just stuck back in "dot-to-dot" then the timing set, cam, etc could be installed at a non-optimum ICL. That will make a SIGNIFICANT difference. I love those old Willys gassers by the way.......

Edit: I wouldn't change intakes until you get to the bottom of tuning this combo and checking cam timing - unless you just want to change intakes anyway, you might spend the money and time and be dissapointed.

Tom,yes I had a new billet timing chain put on.He put it on the same exact way the factory had it..He wanted to advance it,but I told him no.
you guys keep talking about supporting mods!!WTF r u talking about?
I have FMS shorties,,65mm accufab with power pipe,,screamin Demon ign system,,FPR,and 13 degrees of timing.plus the stuff in my sig.

Tom the ultimate willys gasser is the Stone/Cook and Woods racer

 

[tmoss]

Hmmmm.......Maybe should have listened to him about the cam - Buddy Rawls recommended a 109 ICL on my 112.5 stock cam measurement which meant I had to put it in 4 degrees advanced and I made very good power through 5,500 rpm.

For now I'd just schedule a dyno session with wide band to see whare you are - we're just guessing now. Stone Woods & Cook - flash back man.....

 

[willys1]

Hmmmm.......Maybe should have listened to him about the cam - Buddy Rawls recommended a 109 ICL on my 112.5 stock cam measurement which meant I had to put it in 4 degrees advanced and I made very good power through 5,500 rpm.

For now I'd just schedule a dyno session with wide band to see whare you are - we're just guessing now. Stone Woods & Cook - flash back man.....

The reason I opted not too advance it was because I had a bad pinging problem.(93 hyper.. pistons) But when I saw the old heads I saw the problem.Each cylinder had a cob-web like material,,thats the only way I can describe it..After combustion this stuff must have kept on burning causing the pinging!Now its fine!! Im gonna do a dyno tune this winter!!

 

[90lxcoupe]

My thumper combo at first ran the stock 4 cat H-pipe, but the cats were in perfect condition. Take a rubber mallet or other soft hammer and tapp the cats and notice if yoiu hear any rattles from inside. If they do the cats are bad. Another way to check is to put a vacuum gauge to the intake, rev the motor to 2500rpm and hold it and if it starts to loose vacuum after intitial buildup then you have an exaust restriction. Be sure all sensor are operating properly, and if all else fails, do a leakdown and compression test.

i cant remember but didnt he say he rattled soem heat shields off the cats already? that could be a major issue.

also t-moss, i wasnt saying you product wasnt making power, i was saying that with waht he had i would dowbt 240, i have heard nothing but good things about your headwork on this site

 

[tmoss]

actually, I do intakes and Thumper does the heads.....

 

[willys1]

i cant remember but didnt he say he rattled soem heat shields off the cats already? that could be a major issue.

also t-moss, i wasnt saying you product wasnt making power, i was saying that with waht he had i would dowbt 240, i have heard nothing but good things about your headwork on this site

he does intakes,,not heads! What I have is his prodict with thumper heads..Once again,,they ARE PROVEN 240-260 dynoed HP!!

 

[drgn5.0]

he does intakes,,not heads! What I have is his prodict with thumper heads..Once again,,they ARE PROVEN 240-260 dynoed HP!!

Why are you arguing about what others think its making? Take it to a dyno and eliminate all doubts. 96mph trap doesnt indicate a lot of power. stock head and intake that are ported are still stock parts. stop the internet racing and go dyno the car. btw i hope you got flow numbers on your ported parts.

 

[5spd GT]

drgn5.0 - I'm sure the "flow" is there. Just something isn't right with the car. I think it's a tuning issue. Good Luck Billy...

 

[willys1]

Why are you arguing about what others think its making? Take it to a dyno and eliminate all doubts. 96mph trap doesnt indicate a lot of power. stock head and intake that are ported are still stock parts. stop the internet racing and go dyno the car. btw i hope you got flow numbers on your ported parts.

Im not arguing,just letting the few people know who comented about the combo not being able to make that power,its been dyno proven more then once.I know,I know,DONT RUSH ME!!! I'll go to the dyno in January,looking forward to doing some work on the LX.Its been awhile since I turned a wrench!
Thanks Dave,I'll let you know how I make out.
So I guess the stock H-pipe is the bottle neck this time.When First it was the intake.Replaced it! Then it was the heads,.Replaced it!Now its the H-pipe,,Im getting a VRS X-pipe!!I'll keep you posted..

 

[rsw007]

get it to a dyno. play with the timing and fuel pressue and find out what it likes.