FRPP Hot Rod Cams Installed

[DarkFireGT]

So how are these FRPP HR Cams actually comparing to the Comp NSR cams? Someone said in an earlier post there are Comp cams which can give that nice lopey sound and from my understanding they give better #s when all is said and done. Am I understanding this correctly? Someone also asked about the warranty issue, any word on that? I definitely want cams, but I want the best sound/power value possible.

From all the numbers and clips I've seen, the only Comp Cams that have the same choppy idle require springs and the gains seem to be very similar up top, though they lose a little down below. Now I don't know about any new grinds, this is information I gathered in December. The Comp NSR cams that Brenspeed sells do not have a noticeable difference in idle and gain 15-20 RWHP on a basic bolt-on car and lower gears are highly recommended.

The problem with most of the Comp Cams and BBR is that to get the rough idle and gains, they increase the lift. That's the reason for the need for springs. The FRPP Hot Rod cams increase the exhaust/intake overlap, and lift is only increased by 1mm. So that's how you get the big block sound without having to replace the springs.

 

[ufnavy06]

From all the numbers and clips I've seen, the only Comp Cams that have the same choppy idle require springs and the gains seem to be very similar up top, though they lose a little down below. Now I don't know about any new grinds, this is information I gathered in December. The Comp NSR cams that Brenspeed sells do not have a noticeable difference in idle and gain 15-20 RWHP on a basic bolt-on car and lower gears are highly recommended.

The problem with most of the Comp Cams and BBR is that to get the rough idle and gains, they increase the lift. That's the reason for the need for springs. The FRPP Hot Rod cams increase the exhaust/intake overlap, and lift is only increased by 1mm. So that's how you get the big block sound without having to replace the springs.

So basically you're saying is the Hot Rod cams sound better, are NSR, cost about the same, and get comparable #s to a set of springs required Comp cams?

 

[blacksheep06]

So basically you're saying is the Hot Rod cams sound better, are NSR, cost about the same, and get comparable #s to a set of springs required Comp cams?

The comp stage III has a lopey idle and may give a little more HP up top but they require springs and you'll probably lose some low end.

The FRPP cams look like the best all around. NSR, gains across the board, and a mean idle. If I do cams I'll definately do these, would be nice to see another car on the dyno though to make sure they give those kinds of gains consistently. A lot of it is probably in the tune.

 

[PSYKOSTEVO]

The comp stage III has a lopey idle and may give a little more HP up top but they require springs and you'll probably lose some low end.

The FRPP cams look like the best all around. NSR, gains across the board, and a mean idle. If I do cams I'll definately do these, would be nice to see another car on the dyno though to make sure they give those kinds of gains consistently. A lot of it is probably in the tune.

I've been wondering if the baseline was with his previous tune, or with a completely stock car.

 

[mhanksii]

Not to high jack a thread, but my question is how would these cams work in a S/C engine. I have a MagnaCharger running the stock 3.3" pullie and have belt slip now so I am looking for something other than a smaller pullie to boost up my car just a bit more. Oh yeah and that sound isn't bad, I mean as it's kinda ok if your into that sorta thing... Good lord I want that sound!!!

 

[DarkFireGT]

Black Sheep is right. From everything I've seen, these are the best all around cam for NA applications in terms of cost, performance, and sound.

These would not be the right cams for a FI application. You'd want a custom grind FI cam.

 

[PSYKOSTEVO]

Not to high jack a thread, but my question is how would these cams work in a S/C engine. I have a MagnaCharger running the stock 3.3" pullie and have belt slip now so I am looking for something other than a smaller pullie to boost up my car just a bit more. Oh yeah and that sound isn't bad, I mean as it's kinda ok if your into that sorta thing... Good lord I want that sound!!!

custom blower cams are available from a few vendors.

 

[chad9350]

Great numbers...

Great numbers... Remember guys, Mustang Dyno's run about 10-15% below Dynojet (look at mine on both in sig.)

so, on a Dynojet theoretically would be about 340hp.

:Tracklease post et before and after; Im curious most as to et drop

 

[bigcat]

if you install cams and have any issues related to the valvetrain, you are footing the repair bill. same as any other aftermarket part.

 

[ranger04]

I'm not claiming to be a rocket scientist, but going by what I've read. In the article, JDM cliams by having the phase limiters, it allows the cams to work with in the priameters of the cvt. The cvt helps with lowend and midrange, with the cams working with the cvt allows the car to keep it's low and mid range while increasing hp at the top. The ford hot rod cams also make the claim that you do not loose lowend or mid range. Maybe you can explain better than JDM how it is that with the new cams with phase limiters that work with the cvt don't loose bottom end or mid range, the same claim made by ford on the hot rod cams that doesn't use phase limiters. In theory, when you gain power at the top, it suffers else where. Now both of these cams claim that isn't the case. So what is there secret in building topend hp without sacrifiing lowend or midrange? I'm just trying to understand how all this works, cause now I'm getting confused. It's like having your cake and eating it to, so how do they build topend hp without sacrificing lowend or are they fibbing and you do loose lowend, what gives?

 

[MikeysOTP]

I am no expert either, but let me give this a shot.

Variable Cam Timing (VCT) works by adjusting the timing according to throttle position, RPMs, and load. This is a great way to make good torque down low by retarding the cams as well as increasing fuel mileage. The fact that people are getting crazy gas mileage with these heavy, powerful cars is a result of VCT, not some kind of magic.

The stock VCT is able to retard the cams as much as 60%. Phaser limiters are used to limit the amount of retard to 20%. These are used to accomodate cams that have either higher lift or longer duration to the point that at 60% retard, the cams and valves will have an undesired meeting. I don't know the specific differences between all of the cams, what I do know is that FRPP says that limiters are not needed for the Hot Rod Cams, and I haven't heard of any problems to the contrary with them. My car runs great and has already been through every situation that I will throw at it: burnouts, powershifts, cruise control, low revs, high revs, etc.

I have a feeling that the article you mentioned about limiters increasing torque was in comparison to lockouts. Many people were using these to lock out the VCT altogether with cam swaps. The limiters are a fairly new way to avoid locking out the VCT totally. So yes, in this case limiters would increase power.

I do not claim anything here to be factual, this is just the way I understand it, so take it for what it is worth.

 

[blbrchnk]

I am no expert either, but let me give this a shot.

Variable Cam Timing (VCT) works by adjusting the timing according to throttle position, RPMs, and load. This is a great way to make good torque down low by retarding the cams as well as increasing fuel mileage. The fact that people are getting crazy gas mileage with these heavy, powerful cars is a result of VCT, not some kind of magic.

The stock VCT is able to retard the cams as much as 60%. Phaser limiters are used to limit the amount of retard to 20%. These are used to accomodate cams that have either higher lift or longer duration to the point that at 60% retard, the cams and valves will have an undesired meeting. I don't know the specific differences between all of the cams, what I do know is that FRPP says that limiters are not needed for the Hot Rod Cams, and I haven't heard of any problems to the contrary with them. My car runs great and has already been through every situation that I will throw at it: burnouts, powershifts, cruise control, low revs, high revs, etc.

I have a feeling that the article you mentioned about limiters increasing torque was in comparison to lockouts. Many people were using these to lock out the VCT altogether with cam swaps. The limiters are a fairly new way to avoid locking out the VCT totally. So yes, in this case limiters would increase power.

I do not claim anything here to be factual, this is just the way I understand it, so take it for what it is worth.

You had me at Cam.

 

[bigcat]

the comp cams limiters limit the physical movement of the cams. you can (and still need to with these limiters) limit the amount of movement within the tune to 20*. the comp limiters adress the issue with mechanical limits to be safe. there is the possibility that some instances when the VCT cant limit the movement fast enough to compensate.

check this link for all the info from comp directly...

Ford 3 Valve Camshafts

here is a copy/paste directly from that page. there is more to read on the website though.

What are cam phasers?
Ford’s cam phasers are specially designed, computer-controlled cam gears for all 2005 and newer Ford Modular 3 Valve engines that have the ability to adjust camshaft position while the engine is running. Since the modular engine uses two camshafts, two cam phasers are used.

How do they work?
Engine oil is pressure fed to the cam phasers through a series of passageways in the cylinder heads and camshafts. The engine computer controls a pair of solenoids that adjusts this oil flow into and out of the cam phaser’s control chambers, giving the ability to retard the cams up to 60 crank degrees.

Why did Ford put them in the engine?
When the cams are retarded 20-40 degrees during part throttle engine operation, it takes less power to turn the engine over. This helps to increase the engine’s fuel efficiency. Another power benefit is that the cam phasers allow the camshafts to always be in the best position for maximum power, regardless of what the engine’s rpm is. The engine makes more torque and horsepower and extends the high rpm powerband by an extra 800-1000 rpm.

Why should I modify the cam phasers with a COMP Cams® Limiter Kit?
If there is a downside to the stock cam phasers designed by Ford, it is that they have such a wide range of movement. Since the cams can theoretically be retarded by up to 60 degrees, there is very little piston to valve clearance in the engine. This minimal piston to valve clearance limits us to fairly small cam profiles with very little overlap.

What does the COMP Cams® Phaser Limiter Kit do?
These limiter plates replace the factory back-plate on the cam phaser. They have posts which extend into the cam gear’s control chambers, limiting their movement to no more than 20 degrees. This gives more piston to valve clearance and lets you install bigger, more powerful camshafts with safe piston to valve clearances. While keeping up to 20 degrees of movement available, all the wide-open throttle benefits of the cam phasing are retained, since the normal retard the cams see at wide-open throttle is only around 9 degrees.

Do I have to reprogram my engine’s computer after installing the Cam Phaser Limiter Kit?
Yes, you MUST reprogram your engine’s computer for the engine to operate properly after installing the cam phaser limiters. The guidelines for reprogramming are simple – just make sure that the maximum retard amount entered for any of the cam phaser tables and DTC strategies in your tuning software does not exceed 20 degrees.

hope that helps some questions on these. i dont claim to be an expert on these, as i am learning as info becomes available like most of us here.

 

[PSYKOSTEVO]

I'm not claiming to be a rocket scientist, but going by what I've read. In the article, JDM cliams by having the phase limiters, it allows the cams to work with in the priameters of the cvt. The cvt helps with lowend and midrange, with the cams working with the cvt allows the car to keep it's low and mid range while increasing hp at the top. The ford hot rod cams also make the claim that you do not loose lowend or mid range. Maybe you can explain better than JDM how it is that with the new cams with phase limiters that work with the cvt don't loose bottom end or mid range, the same claim made by ford on the hot rod cams that doesn't use phase limiters. In theory, when you gain power at the top, it suffers else where. Now both of these cams claim that isn't the case. So what is there secret in building topend hp without sacrifiing lowend or midrange? I'm just trying to understand how all this works, cause now I'm getting confused. It's like having your cake and eating it to, so how do they build topend hp without sacrificing lowend or are they fibbing and you do loose lowend, what gives?

You don't have to sacrifice low end power to gain top end. Take an aftermarket air intake for example. You gain up top, and don't lose anything down low.

 

[bigcat]

with camshafts it is typical that to build power up top, you are moving the entire power range up, which loses power down low. the entire power band shifts, not just extending to the upper RPM.

 

[ranger04]

Thanks Mickey, that gives me a better understanding on what the phase limiters do and how it works with the vct.

 

[kooldawg6]

with camshafts it is typical that to build power up top, you are moving the entire power range up, which loses power down low. the entire power band shifts, not just extending to the upper RPM.

This is why it is recommended to run lower gears (usually 4.10+) and minimum 3000 RPM stall if auto as well to help with the shifted up power band.

 

[bigcat]

This is why it is recommended to run lower gears (usually 4.10+) and minimum 3000 RPM stall if auto as well to help with the shifted up power band.

very good point!

 

[chad9350]

+1 ...get ready to launch at well above 5K to keep it in its sweeeeet spot

 

[steedman07]

They sounded great Mike, nice job...Thanks for stopping at the showroom with the flyers, they came out great!!!..