351 stroker guys

[redrider69]

Hey, im in the works of having a 408 stroker built for my 94 convert. Ive gotten some parts together so far like a trickflow intake, steeda fuel rails, tb adaptor, injectors and a few other minor things. Im still searching for my block though. What headers did you guys use, I saw one of you used the kooks, but do you know of any others that work. I knew some of the fox swap headers had some problems.

Also, 351saleen, how in the hell are you running a blower on that block. Is it a man o war black, or dart or something. I didnt think the 351 could come close to handleing that power.

 

[trav_19]

im curious to the pan and headers to get for the swap also....

i was curious because i think i read that you can use all the accesory brakets on the 351 block...since i will be leaving it a injected motor not a carb car....is it easy to tell of the bat that its a 351? could i have people believeing its just a built 302 under the hood or is there something different that would give it away right away...i hate nothing more then lurkers that want to look thru my bay and see what i have under the hood....9 times outta 10 my hoods never open for anyone....but if it does i want it to look like a stock motor..

 

[redrider69]

yeah, you could tell people thats its a built 302, the only major differance in the blocks, are the deck height, so as long as your not talking to someone who might know the block well, you could easily pull off its a 302.

If your talking about the kid that drives the honda civic down the road with the huge wing and coffee can exhaust. He wont even know what 302 means let alone 408 stroker or what ever it is you plan on going. =)

 

[trav_19]

good to know...i noticed with the coil mounted in the stock location and what not it resembed a 302 to me quite a bit and i like the sleeper look....maybe play off the whole i dont know what it is its got 8 plugs i bought it this way lol...what engines do these cars come with lines haha...i was playing around with a mach 1 in my 93 he was chasing me all over town and came up next to me and was like what do you got done to it and i was like umm its pretty much stock some bolt ons you know....he says you wanna go at this light so i say sure so we run it thru the first 3 gears and let up around 45 or so and we were side by side we come up to the next light and he yells out bull **** its stock lol i was pretty proud of my car lol but i def want people thinking its a 302 i dont want attention drawn to the car i will try to do it as plain jane as possible i dont want the pollished stuff under the hood...even though i drool over other guys bays like that its not what im after...the most bling my bay will reciveve is i want to braid all the lines in the bay...

mostly i need to know what oil pan to run i have a lot of the other stuff narrowed down i just dont know what to run for a pan

 

[trav_19]

whoops i also want to know recomendations for a crank the 408 kit i am looking at comes with a high nodular 400m crank would that be a alright crank for a nitrous motor? it is rated for 6500 rpms max and 650hp max ...if its not a good crank what type of material do i want to look for?

 

[BlackVert]

n/a ... cast crank is fine

boost or nitrous ... forged

 

[Pokageek]

351 blocks should be good for 850HP or more.

 

[Grn92LX]

351 blocks should be good for 850HP or more.

No sir.

Late model 351 blocks are no stronger than late model 302 blocks according to my highly regarded builder.

 

[S351Saleen77]

whoops i also want to know recomendations for a crank the 408 kit i am looking at comes with a high nodular 400m crank would that be a alright crank for a nitrous motor? it is rated for 6500 rpms max and 650hp max ...if its not a good crank what type of material do i want to look for?

I would not use that crank. That is how it was done 10yrs ago. Now there are so many aftermarket cranks that you just get what you can afford. ( It would be like porting and putting big valves in a stock head for the same price as buying a aftermarket head that is better anyway.) If you can spend a few hundred extra get a forged crank. If you are running nitrous I would have Forged pistons for sure and the crank if you can afford it.

 

[S351Saleen77]

No sir.

Late model 351 blocks are no stronger than late model 302 blocks according to my highly regarded builder.

Late model 351 blocks are WAY stronger than a 302 block! ANY 351 block is stronger than a 302 block, just compare them side by side they are WAY beefier.

When you look at the bottom end of the two together the 302 looks so small and weak its not funny. I have no idea where your builder came up with that at?

 

[trav_19]

get a main girdle thats something on my list...i looked at the list and it says a optional forged steel crank is availiable in that kit....but the pistons are probe forged aluminum are those any good? i was leaning towards that kit because it is pretty reasonablely priced about middle the road ...it has one of the highest rpm rating and was the only one that said it was a good nitrous/boost stroker kit...

 

[S351Saleen77]

Hey, im in the works of having a 408 stroker built for my 94 convert. Ive gotten some parts together so far like a trickflow intake, steeda fuel rails, tb adaptor, injectors and a few other minor things. Im still searching for my block though. What headers did you guys use, I saw one of you used the kooks, but do you know of any others that work. I knew some of the fox swap headers had some problems.

Also, 351saleen, how in the hell are you running a blower on that block. Is it a man o war black, or dart or something. I didnt think the 351 could come close to handleing that power.

The post I left above yours I talked about the headers I think I will try. The Kooks have ground clearance issues.

The block is a stock 351 late model roller. I put a probe 5/8" billet steel girdle on it. They don't offer one that thick anymore. Like I was saying in the post above the 351 blocks are pretty beefy. As long as the tune is good and you don't detonate they will take alot.
I even had a tuner lean it out to much on the dyno and had it detonate bad and cracked 6 pistons, but it didn't hurt the block ,crank ,or rods. It pays to spend the money on good internal componets and balance everything, and GOOD machine work. Line hone, deck, then bore the block, EVERYTHING has to be perfect. BAD machine work will cause a lot of problems. #1 find somebody who knows what he is doing on the machine work. I can't stress it enough. When I first took my block in the deck job was all wrong etc. Whoever machined it didn't know what they were doing. Sometimes you get what you pay for, going to somebody because they are cheaper can cost you more in the long run!
Right now with a conservative tune its at around 800hp at the crank. I probably am at the limit of being safe with the block. If it was a 302 block it would have split in two along time ago!

 

[S351Saleen77]

get a main girdle thats something on my list...i looked at the list and it says a optional forged steel crank is availiable in that kit....but the pistons are probe forged aluminum are those any good? i was leaning towards that kit because it is pretty reasonablely priced about middle the road ...it has one of the highest rpm rating and was the only one that said it was a good nitrous/boost stroker kit...

Main girdle yes I would. I would also get a steel one NOT aluminum. The DSS aluminum dosent even attach on one of the front mains. This is a debated topic but I would go with steel. It expands more evenly with the block etc etc. Thats my opinion, others like aluminum.

Probe pistons are great!! highly recommended!!

 

[BlackVert]

No sir.

Late model 351 blocks are no stronger than late model 302 blocks according to my highly regarded builder.

no kidding. i hadn't heard that. i am pretty sure that the pre-1975 blocks are stronger. my block is a 1971.

 

[Pokageek]

ALL 351 blocks are stronger than 302 by a longshot. Pre-75 are even stronger than that.

 

[trav_19]

Main girdle yes I would. I would also get a steel one NOT aluminum. The DSS aluminum dosent even attach on one of the front mains. This is a debated topic but I would go with steel. It expands more evenly with the block etc etc. Thats my opinion, others like aluminum.

Probe pistons are great!! highly recommended!!

oh good then it looks like i found the kit i want to go with w/ the optional crank thanks for your help

does anyone know if i need a special oil pan no one seems to comment on that question will a reg 351 pan work fine?? or do i need some conversion pan or something?

 

[S351Saleen77]

oh good then it looks like i found the kit i want to go with w/ the optional crank thanks for your help

does anyone know if i need a special oil pan no one seems to comment on that question will a reg 351 pan work fine?? or do i need some conversion pan or something?

I had a Canton that I sold to get the Aviad pan. I had to send the Aviad back 2 times to get it to clear the girdle and steering rack. It has trap doors which I wanted. I think the Canton would have fit with the girdle no problem.
I do think a regular 351 pan will work though, but if you can afford it go with something that has a higher capacity than stock. Look at Ebay, stangnet ,etc for a used one. I sold mine for $100.

Good luck with the project! Once it's done there will be no going back to a 302, the difference is amazing.

 

[Grn92LX]

ALL 351 blocks are stronger than 302 by a longshot. Pre-75 are even stronger than that.

Guess I should have had you build my motor then (Severe sarcasm!!)

Sorry, i'll take what my builder has to say over ANYONE in this thread. Not that it matters, I don't have a 351 based engine anyway.

 

[Pokageek]

NM.

I am speaking based on what my engine builder has indicated so do go into that me building your engine crapola.

Ok, let's make this constructive. What facts do you have since you are disputing the strength of the 351 block?

tick..tock...Silence is deafening...tick ..tock..ok, looks like maybe you should have had me build your engine, hehe..

Here are some F-A-C-T-S (facts are good) listed by 5.0 Mustang magazine:

"If you’re considering extra cubes, then chances are you’re wrestling with a fairly common dilemma: Do you build a 347 out of your 5.0 or step all the way up to a 351? Perhaps the following info will help you decide.

351W: Advantages

• Strength: The 351W block is stronger than the production 5.0 by a long shot. Thicker walls and 3-inch main, and 2.311-inch rod journals (versus 2.248/2.123 for the 5.0) are contributing factors.

• Taller Deck: The 351W features a deck height of 9.503 inches versus the 5.0’s 8.206 inches. This means a longer rod can be used for even more cubes—up to 435 with a production two-bolt block, and 454 cubes with a four-bolt FRPP block, according to George Klass at Coast High Performance."



...more F_A_C_TS..

"Stroking the 351W

The quest for additional power is insatiable for many Mustang enthusiasts. If a 150 hp shot of nitrous is good, then 200 hp is even better. If 10 psi of boost feels good, then 14 psi should feel even better. If a 302 makes 1.5 hp per cubic inch, imagine what it'll do with a 351W, but why stop at 351, why not 383, or even 427 cubic inches.

351W conversions are becoming increasingly popular with many of our customers. With the widespread stroker kits available for 302's, attention is now being focused on stroking the formidable 351W.

There are several benefits to stroking a 351W over a 302, the most important is block strength. The factory 302 block is inherently weak and doesn't hold up well to serious levels of power and torque. The 351W on the other hand features a much beefier block design and is more suited to high levels of power and more demanding environments." - Alternative Auto Performance
Mt. Clemens, Michigan 48043


"The advantages of using a 351W vs a 5.0 (302):

FIRST, you get an extra 49 cubic inches of displacement. As the saying goes, there is no replacement for displacement. Second, the webbing in the lower half of the block is thicker, making the block stronger. Third, the crank has bigger main and rods journals, making the cranks more durable than their 302 counterparts."


EDITED for smilie content!

 

[BlackVert]

my engine builder also says that 351 blocks are much stronger. maybe he should have built your engines ...