a/c retro fit r134a kits do they work?

[jd-underdog]

hey i have a 93 gt with the old r-12 freon in it, it is completly drained right now, i saw a retro kit at autozone over the weekend for the r-134a, do these kits really work? this kits says all you have to do is run this one bottle in first and then fill it up with the r-134a, and your system is completey switched over, let me know if anyone has had experince with one of these kits. just wondering if it actually works, and is the air pretty cold?, ot should i just find someone to fill it back up with the r-12?
thanks

 

[squeeeg]

I tried one on my old 88GT it didn't work. The problem was the compressor was blown so it wouldn't hold fluid

 

[BlueDevil95]

i had it don on my 93 t-bird. it worked, but the r-134 never got as cold ar the r-12.

 

[gcd1970]

Conversions have a history of working for a year or so, but then the compressor usually winds up failing. When that happens, the compressor, accumulator/drier, and orifice tube will have to be replaced. I am dealing with this same issue on my mom's 86 Escort.

I would have your system completely discharged and evacuated. This way most of the r-12 refrigerant, and other loose crap will be blown from your system. The compressor and accumulator will have to be disconnected so no junk becomes lodged during the evacuation process. Have this performed by a competent shop. Doing this may save you from replacing expensive parts.

 

[jrichker]

See http://jrichker.stangnet.com/Mustang_tech/R134a_conversion/R134a_conversion.htm for R134a conversion help.

 

[Dr. Teeth]

I looked into this awhile back and the answer is sometimes. What you need to do is to depressurize the system, disassemble and flush the stuff out, and then reassemble, evacuate and repressurize. Then, it may work, depending on how much of the old lubricant you got out and even then as someone else mentioned, it's not as cold. I have done it on a few cars and generally since the r-12 compressors aren't designed to run at the higher pressures of r-134a they fail sooner moreso than later. Good luck. Oh, and the retro-in-a-can usually is crap.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Starscream88]

I did mine last year,

Still works fine and is nice and cold
Not that I use it much,

But no its not as cold as R12,

 

[aete2]

I say take to shop and have it done right, will save you money in the long run but if you don't care that the system might fail then go with it!

 

[Starscream88]

You do need to evacuate the system for about 20 to 30 mins using a A/C evacuator Pump,

From my experience anyway,

Im not sure if you can just "let it out" and re fill (although illegal) Im not sure if that works or not

 

[Starscream88]

Oh and I just bought my Kit at K-Mart,

Cost $35 with the new fittings and a couple of cans of the new R-134a,

However,

I bought 3 cans of Refrigerant WITH sealant and a half can of Oil with sealant,

3 and half cans later, My system was charged,

 

[PRO50SC]

hey i have a 93 gt with the old r-12 freon in it, it is completly drained right now, i saw a retro kit at autozone over the weekend for the r-134a, do these kits really work? this kits says all you have to do is run this one bottle in first and then fill it up with the r-134a, and your system is completey switched over, let me know if anyone has had experince with one of these kits. just wondering if it actually works, and is the air pretty cold?, ot should i just find someone to fill it back up with the r-12?
thanks

I would have it recharged with a good R-12 substitute like Freeze 12. We use it at our shop with great success. No need to change the accumulator or drain the old oil out of the compressor. It's compatable and safe. it's not as expensive as R-12 either. And gets just as cold as the R-12 unlike the 134 conversion. Freeze 12 is whats in my car now. (Burrrr, it's chilly in here!!! LOL) Click on the Freeze 12 link above and look at this kit.....
New! Freeze 12 complete "Quick-charge kit" Contains: 3 (12oz) cans of Freeze 12, 1 Freeze 12 can-tap, 1 charging hose, 1 pair of Freeze 12 high and low-side service port fittings (which fit directly over R-12 service fittings) and a Freeze 12 system label. $59.95 (plus 4.00 shipping) Order here

 

[RacerXGT]

I used one of those kits on my wifes old sunbird. I replaced the orifice tube, and canister before chargeing. It worked just fine afterwards.

 

[85 Coupe 5.0]

Does anyone do a search before posting? Sorry, not trying to flame anyone, but there are a million threads on Stangnet about this. But, here goes again.


Basically, the retrofit kits you see in Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Autozone, ect. are a fix-it-fast kind of deal, usually temporary fixes with big consequences.

Some people have success, some don't, it depends on the condition of the system in the beginning. You must diagnose an A/C system as a whole, not just an individual compnent. So the compressor failed? why did it fail? Probably because it was starved for oil, caused by a low system charge or partially blocked orfice tube.

here are some notes about retrofitting.

You must replace the filter-drier/accumulator. The dessicant, or drying agent, contained in it isn't compatible with 134a, it will break down and circulate through the system, eventually plugging up the orifice tube. This is usually why an improper retrofit usually results in compressor failure.

You must remove all the old oil R-12 oil from the system.

The system needs to be flushed, but DO NOT flush rubber hoses. The mineral oil coates the inside of the hoses forming a barrier. Flushing the hoses will remove this barrier. Since the R134a molecule is smaller than the R12 molecule, you usually will make several small leaks. If the compressor is trashed, obviously you will have to flush the whole system and/or hoses.

There are aftermarket orifice tubes for 134a conversions to make the most of the system, they are quite expensive but well worth the money. I have done 3 retrofits so far this year with nothing but success using that orifice. All three vehicles blew 30 deg. out the vents after the retrofits. This was on an average of a 85 degree day with about 40 percent humidity. I think that's plenty cold, now granted this is using the replacement orifice that's auto adjusting.

When you take the system apart to flush it, turn the compressor over and get all the r12 oil out of it you possibly can. Then, go buy a bottle of Energy Release. Use 2 oz of energy release in the compress plus the normal 3 oz of PAG oil. The reason for the Energy Release is to protect the compressor from the new higher pressures of the 134a refrigerant. The refrigerant in the system won't move the ER, it will stay in the compressor and keep it lubricated no matter what, in addition to keeping the operating temperature of the compressor at a minimal.

Make sure to vacuum the system for AT LEAST 45min to 1 hour, then a 15 minute wait to see if you have any leaks.

Next, make sure to charge the system with 90 percent of the specified charge, 134a is heavier than R12 and therefore less of a charge is required when retrofitting.

I have heard of and seen Freeze 12 used, and a lot of people have great success with it, but it is a blended refrigerant and could in time, break down into it's base components and ruin the system, but i have never seen or heard of this happening to this day.

Remember, it is illegal to "top off" an existing system or attempt to service it without proper training, so says the EPA. Although you don't have to have a licence to buy R134a, go figure.

Any questions?

 

[The Shape]

I used the retrofit kit form wal-mart two years ago. The first summer it worked pretty good not extremely cold , but enough to keep you from sweating. The second summer I developed a leak in the line the canister is made on to. This summer the system had completely leaked down over the winter from the small leak I had. I finally took it to a shop and had the line and canister changed as well as a vaccum pulled and so far so good it is much colder that the two summers I rigged it in my driveway. I doubt it will ever work as well as it did when it was new from the factory with R12, but it is decent.

 

[HISSIN50]

i did not read this all, (85 coupe, im kinda with you)....if not mentioned, R134 molecules are much smaller, so make sure your system is nice and tight (when vacuuming, make sure at the very least, that you are able to hold vacuum). Edit: nevermind, that was mentioned. oops.


85 Coupe, is ER introduced into the system while charging or if the compressor is on the bench? sounds like a nice idea (kinda like a water wetter type of thing). i have never seen anyone talk about it in here.....im tryin to figure out all of this stuff and appreciate any info.......

 

[85 Coupe 5.0]

i did not read this all, (85 coupe, im kinda with you)....if not mentioned, R134 molecules are much smaller, so make sure your system is nice and tight (when vacuuming, make sure at the very least, that you are able to hold vacuum). Edit: nevermind, that was mentioned. oops.


85 Coupe, is ER introduced into the system while charging or if the compressor is on the bench? sounds like a nice idea (kinda like a water wetter type of thing). i have never seen anyone talk about it in here.....im tryin to figure out all of this stuff and appreciate any info.......

ER is introduced on the bench, and make sure you rotate the compressor at least 50 times before you install it, that way you don't hydrolock it. ER states that it can be used in A/C systems, and it will cover your A** if you do this for a living, that compressor will have a long and happy life. I have heard of people using Iexcel also, they claim it mixes with the PAG oil more readialy, but i don't want it to mix with the system oil, i want it to stay put in that compressor.

 

[HISSIN50]

ER is introduced on the bench, and make sure you rotate the compressor at least 50 times before you install it, that way you don't hydrolock it. ER states that it can be used in A/C systems, and it will cover your A** if you do this for a living, that compressor will have a long and happy life. I have heard of people using Iexcel also, they claim it mixes with the PAG oil more readialy, but i don't want it to mix with the system oil, i want it to stay put in that compressor.

thank you for the info. i had figured that it was something to introduce on the bench, but there is so much a/c info and things to know (and know compatibility), it makes my head spin. i ve been trying to really learn about this stuff, and the more i learn, the more i learn that there is way more to learn. LOL.
where would a layman get ER? (if you dont mind answering stupid me again).
thanks again. i appreciate all this good info (and in terms i get - some of the stuff out there requires a bottle of aspirin to figure out).

 

[The Shape]

Yeah hissin I tried doing some reserach into A/C systems this spring because I knew I wanted to fix mine right this year. After about two days of looking at info on the net I finally just handed the guy at the shop my keys and said "please make it so I don't sweat when it gets hot" LOL This stuff is like rocket science, atleast to my feeble mind it is.

 

[HISSIN50]

Yeah hissin I tried doing some reserach into A/C systems this spring because I knew I wanted to fix mine right this year. After about two days of looking at info on the net I finally just handed the guy at the shop my keys and said "please make it so I don't sweat when it gets hot" LOL This stuff is like rocket science, atleast to my feeble mind it is.

The Shape, i hear you. i like to think that im fairly smart, but there is just too much info and too many avenues to pursue when deciding, let alone all of the opinions on what works and what does not. it makes it difficult to find a consensus.....i need to do an R12 to R134 retrofit on one of my cars, and my head is spinning. im too poor to pay someone, so i will try to muddle through. otherwise, i would go the route you did. BTW, i have read that some shops do the retrofit for very little money....like it actually sounded like a decent deal (i know they just evac'd it and converted, but that is all i would do too).

im glad to hear that you are enjoying not sweating. LOL. i drove the eclipse today (it was 98* outside, and the car sits outside - stangie took its bay in the garage). it sucks when getting out of the car and standing in 100* ambient temps feels COOL!
of course, if any a/c guys in tucson read this, feel free to come by and help me retrofit. i will supply bottomless malted beverages (in this heat, that could cost me more than having a shop do the work. LOL).

 

[The Shape]

Yeah the guy who's shop I took mine to is a friend of mine. He replaced my suction line/canister and my cycle swich. He also vaccumed the system and charged it. He only charged me $100.00 . Of course I bought the line and the switch, but still that was a great discount on the labor and the R-134. If I hadn't got such a good deal I would have been screwing with it in the driveway again.