Anybody heard anything about this carb style EFI?

[4MuscleMachines]

I am looking into an EFI sytem for my stroker Cleveland and came across this. I don't know much about EFI or tuning it but supposedly this unit is self learning like the other mass-flo system out on the market (I forget the name). I am looking to see if anybody has any opinions on it or has heard anything about it.

The black anodized unit looks cool, click the link for info.


http://retrotekspeed.com/product.php?pk=52

 

[bnickel]

i've been waiting for someone to install one of these since i first saw them a few months back. i like the idea that it's self learning or laptop tunable but i've heard some say that this system can't possibly work as advertised, though i don't remember exactly why it was said now. this would be the ultimate in sleeper style EFI, though, so i'me very curious to see how it works.

 

[Rusty67]

Ok, I downloaded and read the install manual completely (at least for the mechanical aspect). This EFI setup is a speed density throttle body injection system. As far as speed density setups go, I think this is the easiest one I've seen. This is certainly easier to install then the factory style MAF setup. Both MAF and speed density setups have their advantages. I think you should research the advantages of both systems and decide what is right for you. The total cost of this kit is a bit expensive but then again it is a very complete kit. The price on this kit may actually reflect what its worth in time savings concerning misc. parts you need to find/test/replace.

 

[4MuscleMachines]

What also caught my eye is this claim they make, but again it could just be marketing hype:

RetroTek Speed sells and supports Port Style EFI systems and agrees they have their place, but it should be up to YOU to make that choice. Look over the benefits of our BossEFI and decide for yourself. We have done the testing side by side on the same engine; there is absolutely no measurable power difference between the BossEFI and our port style manifold.

 

[bnickel]

What also caught my eye is this claim they make, but again it could just be marketing hype:

RetroTek Speed sells and supports Port Style EFI systems and agrees they have their place, but it should be up to YOU to make that choice. Look over the benefits of our BossEFI and decide for yourself. We have done the testing side by side on the same engine; there is absolutely no measurable power difference between the BossEFI and our port style manifold.

i doubt there would be much difference in peak power, there have been plenty of tests that show carbs only marginally better at the peak than port EFI, and since this is basically a carb style setup i wouldn't think there would be a whle lot of difference. now driveabiity on the other hand is generally much better with port efi than a carb and still considerably better than a TBI style system but that's mostly on cold or really humid days. a properly setup carb is almost as good under ideal conditions as port EFI

 

[Gud T.B. Blown]

I have been looking at this system as well. The cost is a bit steep but I'd pay for the overall driveability if it works as advertised.

 

[Rusty67]

Honestly, if you want EFI I'd say buy a nice upgraded Ford unit like the explorer intake or the GT40 intake and use a MAF type EFI unless you are concerned with retaining the carb look.

 

[Gud T.B. Blown]

Honestly, if you want EFI I'd say buy a nice upgraded Ford unit like the explorer intake or the GT40 intake and use a MAF type EFI unless you are concerned with retaining the carb look.

Unfortunately neither would fit on a Cleveland engine without a lot of modification.

 

[BlueMonster65]

i saw this setup at Carlisle Ford Nationals this year, and i really liked the design. they claimed it would work great for Blow thru turbo or supercharging and since i have a Blow thru setup it really caught my attention. for some one contemplating a turbo or supercharger upgrade the price of this system is comparable to a blow-thru carb and electronic ignition componetns that you would want to retard timing and change advance curves. i would be interested in hearing from someone who has used this product.

 

[classic boost]

there are only 4 injectors (max 83#- eqiv to ~8 42# inj), so if you're making alot of power, they use a plate with secondary injs. not saying it's bad or good, just something you need to be aware of.
also, the inj is placed in the unit at a very shallow angle (almost laying down). it sprays right at the throttle plate. it would be interesting to see how it works out.

 

[Bosscat]

Anyone try one of these yet?

 

[Bullitt]

I think you'd be best off using a single-plane manifold with this. You'll get a lot more even fuel distribution to all cylinders which will be important if it's "self-learning".

 

[68keyblr]

How does this system stack up against the Mass Flo EFI system? How is it better and how is it worse?

 

[ForceFed70]

I use a similar EFI system in my '70. Although I chose to use a megasquirt ECU with a holley 900cfm TBI unit.

Those of you who are interested in this Boss EFI unit.. have you checked out the similar offerings from Edelbrock and Holley?

From a horsepower perspective, the further your injectors are from the intake valve, the more power you will make(to a point). This is due to better fuel atomization, and the cooling effect that goes along with it.

The downside of throttle body injection vs a port based system is that it has slightly less throttle responce. Particularly at low RPM and low throttle. Still better than any carb tho (if tuned right), but not as good as port injection.

How does this system stack up against the Mass Flo EFI system? How is it better and how is it worse?

They are completely different EFI technologies. Mass flow system uses a mass air sensor, whereas the bossEFI system uses speed density(Manifold absolute pressure). You'll need to do some research as to the pro's and con's of each system. In a nutshell, speed density is more complicated to tune and requires re-tuning for significant engine combo changes. BUT, it doesn't require an expensive mass air sensor which acts as an intake restriction and costs HP. Mass air is easier to tune and doesn't need to be retuned for minor engine changes. But tends to make less power due to the restriction caused by the mass air sensor. Then there's the injector placement. The mass flow system uses port injection, the BossEFI uses throttle body injection.

Other pro's and con's... The BossEFI system let's you keep the "carb'd look" and you can use your existing intake manifold with no modifications. The BossEFI system comes with a tuneable ECU where the Mass Flow system gives you a factory ECU and you'll have to buy an aftermarket tuner if you want to tune it.

 

[htwheelz67]

C'mon some one buy one and try it out......I too have used TBI the holley projection and loved it both analog and digital, the digital was a bitch to tune though but the throtlle response was killer and power, the only carb that has been close has been my demon. The thing that interests me besides the self learning and I believe that is due to the wide band 02 setup which would let you dial in A/F ratios at any given point is that it uses high pressure injectors which is different than other "TBI" systems so I would think the fuel would be even more atomized, Barry Grant had a cool TBI called VFI which used injectors and carb venturis but I havent seen it for a couple years.

I'm forking out 700.00 for a new prosystems carb tommorow for my new 408 but somewhere down the line I want to inject it again and the boss efi is interesting.

 

[valley82]

Did you guys catch the "no need for a fuel return line" if your under 500 h.p.?!
I've been looking at the holley Tbi system but this one sounds like it eliminates the need to modify my fueltank, I'm I reading the site correctly?

 

[ron67fb]

If the fuel pressure is adjusted by a PWM controller as the site suggests there must be a fuel pressure sensor that determines when to pulse the fuel pump.

 

[bnickel]

C'mon some one buy one and try it out......I too have used TBI the holley projection and loved it both analog and digital, the digital was a bitch to tune though but the throtlle response was killer and power, the only carb that has been close has been my demon. The thing that interests me besides the self learning and I believe that is due to the wide band 02 setup which would let you dial in A/F ratios at any given point is that it uses high pressure injectors which is different than other "TBI" systems so I would think the fuel would be even more atomized, Barry Grant had a cool TBI called VFI which used injectors and carb venturis but I havent seen it for a couple years.

I'm forking out 700.00 for a new prosystems carb tommorow for my new 408 but somewhere down the line I want to inject it again and the boss efi is interesting.

yeah, i too thought it looked very similar to the BG VFI as well, in fact i'm seriously wondering if BG sold the rights to it to these guys. BTW, the Pro-Comp Electronics guys have already ripped this one off too, either that or this company is a "division" of Pro-Comp, don't know which though.

 

[CochinoFilipino]

,,,,,,,,,,They are completely different EFI technologies. Mass flow system uses a mass air sensor, whereas the bossEFI system uses speed density(Manifold absolute pressure). You'll need to do some research as to the pro's and con's of each system. In a nutshell, speed density is more complicated to tune and requires re-tuning for significant engine combo changes. BUT, it doesn't require an expensive mass air sensor which acts as an intake restriction and costs HP. Mass air is easier to tune and doesn't need to be retuned for minor engine changes. But tends to make less power due to the restriction caused by the mass air sensor. Then there's the injector placement. The mass flow system uses port injection, the BossEFI uses throttle body injection.

Other pro's and con's... The BossEFI system let's you keep the "carb'd look" and you can use your existing intake manifold with no modifications. The BossEFI system comes with a tuneable ECU where the Mass Flow system gives you a factory ECU and you'll have to buy an aftermarket tuner if you want to tune it.

This new Boss system uses wideband o2 sensors. And is using a completely new ECM. What we know about tuning/modding the old Speed Density (MAP) systems from the may not apply. I'm hoping that that using wideband sensors will make this a true self learning system and manual tuning would not be needed in most cases.

 

[mrmustangman357]

how is a speed density setu self-learning? how would it know I want 15:1 on the highway and 12.5:1 at WOT?