mustangkid05
New Member
- Mar 10, 2006
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Anyone try E85 in their stang?
- Thread starter steedastangt
- Start date
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mustangkid05 said:
No, but if it is leaded race fuel it will hurt the cats if you have them and will ruin the 02 sensors.
Race fuel is a WASTE unless you are running a very aggressive FI setup. I ran race gas at the track in my turbo regal but I was running a ton of boost in that car.
I put e85 in my 87 stang with a 302. filled it up because I didn't read the caution on the pump. I just saw the 100 octane and it was cheaper than the 87 octane. But it run like crap. you couldn't hardly take off you had to have it wide open to go. So It might not run right.
FoxRod87 said:
Thats exactly what will happen. this stuff can not be used in cars not made for it.
Go to Turbomustangs.com. There is a thread over there about a guy getting almost a 1000 hp out of a turbocharged stang. Seems with a few changes, bigger fuel pump and injectors, and some tuning mustangs can run it. This thread is huge, should be able to find it with the search function. Lots of good info. With proper changes and the great octane rating this stuff in NOT crap for boosted cars.
This is a great example of an e85 designed and tuned car.. taking advantage of what's there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBzmmO-3Cdo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBzmmO-3Cdo
mity2
I like Pro3 and all I got was this crappy CT.
jstreet0204 said:
+1
Gas milege on our cars are nothing short of horrible with new gas with Corn in it
conv91lx said:
If you do the changes required you will have to run E85 all the time. The factory cars are flex fuel they can sense whats in the tank and adjust for it, our cars do not have that ability.
jstreet0204 said:
Thanks for the info. It makes more sense now that many manufacturers havent converted over. I would still run it if it was feasable though for the higher octane and less pollution. Then again i drive my stang once a week at most
so fuel cost isn't a huge factor (race gas would be though). It would be really sweet to pass emisions with no cats.-Matt
I've actually converted my '99 Vortech Supercharged GT over to E85 last year. Motor internals are still bone stock! The beauty of the project was that I only needed larger injectors, more fuel pump (read: Boost-a-pump), and a custom SCT tune from Pro-Dyno to get the extra fuel. Still have stock rails, stock fuel lines and filter on a returnless style system. Car runs better on alcohol than it ever did on gasoline (11.36 @ 124mph on DRs). It's basically race gas for $2.20/gallon.
If you're not terribly concerned about the 5mpg loss in fuel economy, it's a no-brainer.
I've even built a new website for Mustangs converted to E85. It's new and low on content at this point, but my project car is detailed there.
www.e85mustangs.com
Check out the "tuning" page for detailed specs on how to tune the Modular to run on it.
If you're not terribly concerned about the 5mpg loss in fuel economy, it's a no-brainer.
I've even built a new website for Mustangs converted to E85. It's new and low on content at this point, but my project car is detailed there.
www.e85mustangs.com
Check out the "tuning" page for detailed specs on how to tune the Modular to run on it.
GToddyT5
Founding Member
I also heard that you need to convert your fuel lines. I believe they said it in that turbo thread.
LaserRed01GT
Banned
E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline by volume. Based upon all the CAFE reports I have seen E85 has shown to reduce the overall fuel economy by 27-29% on the highway. This is a direct result of the E85 exuding roughly a .15-.20 increase in the BSFC(brake specific fuel consumption) of the motor. All of these tests were done using flex fuel vehicles running back to back tests with regular pump gas and then the E85.
The E85 manufacturers claim a 3% gain in power by using the E85 over regular pump gas, but the Superflow 901 tests I have seen show very little difference in power between the two different fuels.
Conventional gasoline is a very poor conductor of electricity. This is why it is OK for our conventional fuel pumps to be internally cooled by passing the gas through the fuel pump. E85 on the other hand is a good conductor of electricity and the flex fuel vehicles need a modified fuel pump so that it does not ignite the E85. Ethanol is very caustic and conventional fuel systems and gas tanks are not up to the task to run E85. The FFV’s have nylon lined stainless or just regular stainless hard fuel lines normally. Additionally some of the internal engine components must be coated with a DLC (diamond like carbon) type coating to resist the ethanol. Diesel engines have been using these coatings for years now.
The E85 is more emissions friendly, but the real benefit is to pockets of the big car manufacturers. The Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards are very strict as of late. Federal law requires that the vehicles that manufacturers offer for sale must average at least 27.5 MPG; light trucks must average at least 22.2 MPG. Failure to do so can result in substantial fines. However, relief is available to manufacturers that build E85 vehicles to encourage their production. The irony here is that although E85 in fact gets poorer fuel economy than gasoline, for CAFE purposes, the government counts only the 15-percent gasoline content of E85. Not counting the ethanol, which is the other 85 percent, produces a seven-fold increase in E85 MPG ratings. The official CAFE number for an E85 vehicle results from averaging the gas and the inflated E85 fuel economy stats. Calculating backwards, the CAFE ratings can increase from say 20 MPG to 33 MPG, blowing through the 22.2 MPG mandate and raising the average. GM published an article last year discussing the E85 monetary benefits. Spread over the roughly 4.5-million vehicles GM sold in 2005, the maximum 0.9 MPG benefit allowed by the E85 loophole could have saved GM more than $200 million in fines. That’s not chump change, even for GM.
I know a few head honchos at NHRA, and they are telling me that the EPA is starting to pressure them to begin implementing a plan to start phasing out the use of leaded racing fuels. NASCAR is also working on plans to convert their motors to either pure ethanol or an E85 derivative. Indy is already using pure ethanol this season. It’s just a matter of time before gasoline becomes obsolete, but I will enjoy it while it lasts.
The E85 manufacturers claim a 3% gain in power by using the E85 over regular pump gas, but the Superflow 901 tests I have seen show very little difference in power between the two different fuels.
Conventional gasoline is a very poor conductor of electricity. This is why it is OK for our conventional fuel pumps to be internally cooled by passing the gas through the fuel pump. E85 on the other hand is a good conductor of electricity and the flex fuel vehicles need a modified fuel pump so that it does not ignite the E85. Ethanol is very caustic and conventional fuel systems and gas tanks are not up to the task to run E85. The FFV’s have nylon lined stainless or just regular stainless hard fuel lines normally. Additionally some of the internal engine components must be coated with a DLC (diamond like carbon) type coating to resist the ethanol. Diesel engines have been using these coatings for years now.
The E85 is more emissions friendly, but the real benefit is to pockets of the big car manufacturers. The Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards are very strict as of late. Federal law requires that the vehicles that manufacturers offer for sale must average at least 27.5 MPG; light trucks must average at least 22.2 MPG. Failure to do so can result in substantial fines. However, relief is available to manufacturers that build E85 vehicles to encourage their production. The irony here is that although E85 in fact gets poorer fuel economy than gasoline, for CAFE purposes, the government counts only the 15-percent gasoline content of E85. Not counting the ethanol, which is the other 85 percent, produces a seven-fold increase in E85 MPG ratings. The official CAFE number for an E85 vehicle results from averaging the gas and the inflated E85 fuel economy stats. Calculating backwards, the CAFE ratings can increase from say 20 MPG to 33 MPG, blowing through the 22.2 MPG mandate and raising the average. GM published an article last year discussing the E85 monetary benefits. Spread over the roughly 4.5-million vehicles GM sold in 2005, the maximum 0.9 MPG benefit allowed by the E85 loophole could have saved GM more than $200 million in fines. That’s not chump change, even for GM.
I know a few head honchos at NHRA, and they are telling me that the EPA is starting to pressure them to begin implementing a plan to start phasing out the use of leaded racing fuels. NASCAR is also working on plans to convert their motors to either pure ethanol or an E85 derivative. Indy is already using pure ethanol this season. It’s just a matter of time before gasoline becomes obsolete, but I will enjoy it while it lasts.
This is definitely true that the fuel economy is lower but it's worth mentioning that once E85 becomes roughly .50-.60cents cheaper than gasoline, the cost per mile driven is equivelent. This is especially helpful to Premium 93 fuel users who already pay .20c more than regular 87. With E85 prices hovering a few cents cheaper than regular in most places, it's already starting to offset the difference to our wallets. In the midwest, ethanol is even more reasonable at 1.50-1.70/gal.
The increase is minimal without making modifications to the timing and other ECU paramaters, but the 105 octane rating allows for more aggressive tuning in safe manner. For us car nuts, it's basically race gas for 1/2 the price!
Also true, however the only piston deterioration supposedly comes from the presence of water in the fuel and only at low startup temperatures where formic acid is created. Once the temp rises to operating temp, this is no longer an issue. The risk is small, but yes, in an ideal world, it would be preferred.
As you can tell, I'm a huge supporter of the stuff. I've already been running E85 for 6 months with no problems and am working on adding a fuel sensor to add to the system for true flex fuel capability. Right now I either run E85 or Gas, no combinations. Nearly everyone is most concerned with what happens to their wallet in all this ethanol news. And the main note here is that with more infrastructure, more technology advances, and some gov't regulations that lighten up on official conversion products, we'll have fuel that is super cheap, and made right here in your back yard. It runs through existing pumps, trailered in on existing tankers, and will eventually not compete with food crops. There's no other alternative fuel even close to these possibilities, so ethanol is here to stay for a few decades until we're driving hover mobiles.
LaserRed01GT
Banned
Very nice insight. It's refreshing to chat with someone who knows what they are talking about.
I think E85 will evolve into something good one day. I think the major bump in the road right now though is availability. It’s nowhere to be found at any gas stations that I know of here in the Central Florida area. Just before I left Texas about 5 months ago, I hadn’t seen any E85 at the pumps there either.I agree if they can reduce the cost of the E85, the economical impact will more friendly and balanced as compared to the cost to run conventional gasoline. We will see how the production of ethanol fairs, and I will be curious to see if it will just become corporately overrun like everything else. Hopefully supply and demand won’t make those in the ethanol business too greedy.
From what I have read, they are not so much concerned with the acidic properties of ethanol, but rather its solvent properties. Ethanol is a polar protic solvent that when mixed with water can become significantly caustic.
I remember a Chemistry class in college where we studied ethanol and it’s unique hydrophilic properties. When the a specific volume of Ethanol and a specific volume of water are added to each other, they actually form less of a total volume than the sum of the 2 individual components. It had to do with the hydrogen bond between the H and O and the surface tension was significantly reduced by just adding a little bit of ethanol to water. Anyway E85 has a very low surface tension and that exacerbates the solubility effects of the E85. But, I agree it’s causticity should be very minimal, especially with the proper coatings.
That's true, if you somehow figure out a way to be around a million years from now, you'll see it "renew."
