" Crying" why not a 5.4?

Discussion in '2005 - 2009 Specific Tech' started by ranger04, Sep 23, 2007.

  1. ranger04

    ranger04 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I just read on the ford truck forum a post from a mustang ownwer crying about the crappy mod motors us mustang ownwers have to endure with our small displacement. While GM still has the LS motors 2 valve cam in block making 400 hp. That sorta ****ed me off. There are mod motors running in the 7's, guy's are putting mod motors in thier older stangs. Getting 300 hp out of a 281 cid engine isn't shabby. Back in the musscle car era, the boss 302 with cleveland heads made 290 hp, a hipo 289 made 270, so 300 out of a 281 isn't bad. With some bolton's you can get around 360 hp. As far has more cubes, why isn't there more research into using the 5.4 blocks in our cars? Thats a bump to 330 cid with just the block. It seems with some parts swapping we could easily do a 400-430 hp all motor stang. It seems that swapping in a 5.4 block would be cheaper than a stroker kit or FI. they have been making the 5.4 since 97, there's plenty around. Why isn't there more R&D into using the 5.4 blocks for us common guy's, we could keep our 4.6 heads and what have you, it vseems like it would be a low budget stroker, what I'm I missing?
     
    #1
  2. SpartaPerformance

    Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,171
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    The 4.6L is Fords main CAR V-8 engine. The current Mustang was designed for that motor to fit in the engine bay for proper weight distribution and clearance. The 5.4L is a truck motor. The only reason it's in the GT-500 for example is for cost, it is cheaper for Ford to plop a bigger engine in then to highly machine a 4.6L to make those kind of numbers and still be reliable on a constant everyday driving and beatings the owner would give it. The main idea behind a Mustang is CHEAP!! Yes The new Camaro will have 400bhp out of an old pushrod motor however it will cost more....they ALWAYS have add the fact that GM can't seem to get the weight of that new chassis below 3,800lbs it won't be all that much faster then a stock Mustang, a few simple mods the same basic ones that we've been doing and we'll be faster and probably still cheaper then a Camaro. :nice:
     
    #2
  3. TGJ

    TGJ New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,054
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    With the 4.6 VS 5.4, Ford proved to the world that "There is no replacement for displacement" is FALSE...

    The N/A 5.4 2V is less of a performance motor than a N/A 4.6 2V with stock or the same aftermarket parts. Time and time again this has been proven. I have gone into detail in other threads as to why...

    I laugh at those who are contemplating adding a 5.4 or a 5.0 Stroker to their cars and keep it N/A and try to make it a performance motor... It is a total waste of time and money and they end up with less HP than those you have the same parts on their 4.6L.

    The N/A 5.4 3V is showing roughly the same results compared to the 4.6 3V. The 5.4 is heavier and runs out of steam earlier than the 4.6 does, not something you want out of a performance motor. The only 5.4 in N/A trim that is capable of being a performance motor is the 4V and to get it to out perform what the 4.6 4V can do N/A is going to cost big $$$. Forced Induction can over come this and doing that is not cheap either.

    Ford does have an answer, it is called the 5.0L Big-Bore AKA 5.0L Cammer. That motor is the best you are going to get out of the Modular V8 motors Ford has to offer. If Ford was to offer a variant of that in the Mustang, I would definitely consider it. It is a 5.0L Big-Bore that powers my 96 TBird. Considering the car is making 330+ RWHP N/A in a 2V trim, using the plastic Ford PI intake, a 4R70W automatic and IRS, that is not to shabby. Put 3V or 4V heads on it, the HP grows very quickly and it is not to hard to make over 400 RWHP N/A with the Big-Bores. Something that will only be possible out of a 5.4 4V with lots more of $$$ in it...
     
    #3
  4. anthony05gt

    anthony05gt Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    1,267
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    37
    Location:
    Maryland
    The 5.4's also have a long stroke that kills the top end.
     
    #4
  5. fox1x

    fox1x New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    164
    Showcase:
    4
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Northwest Ohio
    Shoot, why bother with the 5.4 V8... Just throw Ford's V10 under the hood :) !! (Which actually has been done before with great results!!)
     
    #5
  6. LV51FER

    LV51FER New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Caerphilly, Wales, UK
    The LS engine is, I believe, lighter than the Ford engines having a single cam and with a lower centre of gravity.
    This is the mod motor next to the old 302:
    [​IMG]
    5.0 Cammer:
    [​IMG]
    LS1:
    [​IMG]

    The weights are hard to pin down but the weights here are for a fully dressed engine and transmission:
    http://wheeltalk.fancal.net/?p=634
     
    #6
  7. Swordsman

    Swordsman New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    North GA, USA
    Ha! I bet! My Dad has an early 90's Ford dually with an auto V10... he loves being able to bark the tires in second while pulling a load! Something that size in a Mustang would be s-c-a-r-y! :D

    ~SM
     
    #7
  8. kkdoughboy

    kkdoughboy New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Ford needs to start researching the Old School Kick Ass Cobra Jet motors for the new Mustangs. I dont know why but they just ditched that motor, it was one of the best ever. I feel there will be a new version of this motor sitting in the bay of a Mustang in the distant future.
     
    #8
  9. kooldawg6

    kooldawg6 mine works really well and can take a fair amount

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,718
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Central VA
    Worked Aston Martin V12 in Western Motorsports "Vanquish'd"
    pics courtesy of Cowtown:nice:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    #9
  10. MikeysOTP

    MikeysOTP New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Messages:
    206
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    :jaw: I might not be able to sleep after seeing that!
     
    #10
  11. ranger04

    ranger04 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I for one I'm not disapointed, I Think the 4.6 3V rocks. 300 hp out of a stock factory 281 cid motor is excellent and the motor revs and breathes. It just ****ed me off when this guy was whinning about our displacement. He seemed more worried about size than performance. I've played with a few of the newer GTO's and if thats all the LS has to offer (not that it's a dog or anything), give me acouple of bolt ons and I'll go camero hunting. A pro charger would be a nice equalizer for displacement. If doge or GM only ran a 281 cid motor, we would feed them thier lunch and might any way.
     
    #11
  12. kkdoughboy

    kkdoughboy New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
  13. walter

    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 1998
    Messages:
    1,068
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Location:
    Houston TX
    As cool as the new Shelby is the engine up front is a boat anchor. The 5.4L Truck motor uses relatively few parts from the Ford GT's unit which is all aluminum and thus lighter. I'm new to this family of 3V 4.6L but I recognize the potential once I get over the discouragement of the cryptic ECU.

    Still I think there's room for improvement and the guy that got it right this time I think is Steve Saleen with his Parnelli Jones edition. To me the PJ is the equivalent to what the GT3 is to the Porsche 911 a finely tuned machine plus it has the old school aura with its 5.0L engine (or 302 if you're really old old school)
     
    #13
  14. kkdoughboy

    kkdoughboy New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
  15. ranger04

    ranger04 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes, the 302 or 5.0 as you youngsters call it is legendary. The next generation of mod motors coded named boss, will gives us back the 5.0, also a 6.2 for the 150 and a 7 liter as a V-10 replacement and can be used as a lighting motor and see service in special edition stangs. I'm hopeing the boss motors will swap into our present cars as well without alot of hassle, it could be a dream come true for the all motor guy's. I would be satisfied with a 302 in my 07, but a 7 liter would be insane, future looks bright for the stang and performance. The 4.6 is no slouch and deserves it kudo's, it's came along way since the first ones in the 05 stang with thier iron blocks and crappy flowing heads to the little power houses we have today.
     
    #15
  16. StonePony

    StonePony New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2006
    Messages:
    218
    Showcase:
    15
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I hate when pansy whiners go on forums and complain about "Why didn't Ford do this? Why can't we have that motor?" etc.

    If there are people making 800 horspower on 281 cubic inch mod motors, then that is very impressive.
     
    #16
  17. kooldawg6

    kooldawg6 mine works really well and can take a fair amount

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,718
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Central VA
    I'm with StonePony
    It's a crazy word called...aftermarket.
    Even crate motors from Ford will fix your problem.
     
    #17

Share This Page