Progress Thread: 3G install / parts / pictures

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by srothfuss, Apr 5, 2006.


  1. srothfuss

    srothfuss Last night I stabbed the same guy 7 times in a row

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    I am starting a thread for my 3G and e-Fan swap. So far, I have gathered all of the necessary parts required. This weekend I'll install everything and take a lot of pictures to post once it is complete. Since we all want to get a sticky created for the 3G swap topic, I figured I would do a simple picture and comment thread to go along with all of the existing information that is out there. Here is what I have purchased and what will be required to complete the swap on my car.

    What I have for the swap so far:

    1996 Linclon Mark VIII electric fan - ebay $25.00 + shipping
    35A fan control kit from www.dccontrol.com - $109.95
    1995 3G 130amp alternator and some factory wiring- ebay $31.00 + shipping
    8' 4 gauge power wire @ $3.00 per foot from the local audio store
    4' 4 gauge ground wire @ $3.00 per foot from the local audio store
    6 ring terminals @ $2.00 each from the local audio store (2 extra for the ANL fuse block)
    1 ANL fuse block @ $12.00 from the local audio store
    1 150 ANL fuse @ $12.00 from the local audio store
    10' of plastic sheathing for a clean installation - radio shack for less than $10.00
    butt connectors / wire splice - radio shack for less than $10.00
    Heat shrink is also needed - I already have it so I didn't include that in the total

    I have about $275.00 invested in all of these supplies for the swap including the cost of the fan and controller. These two items are not required for the swap, but I figured now will be the perfect time for the e-Fan. Obviously, the 3G swap can be done cheaper. But it can also be done for a lot more money. There are many places to get all of the parts required to do the swap, I choose this way to try something different. (post links to other sites if you like)

    Two of the more common sites:
    www.partsexpress.com - they can supply wiring supplies for cheap
    www.paperformance.com - everyones favorite site

    Please feel free to post any and all other diagrams / writeups / pictures and information that is required for everyone to use. Links to other threads wouldn't be bad either.


    :SNSign:
     
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  2. timewarped1972

    timewarped1972 Member

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    great idea! thats one thing i wished i could have done was get more pics of my 3g swap, but it was kinda un planned so......

    that should help get all the info together for a 3g sticky.....which wiring method are you going to use?
     
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  3. srothfuss

    srothfuss Last night I stabbed the same guy 7 times in a row

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    I got a section of the Ford factory harness with my alternator so I'll be tying into that for a very clean installation at the alternator. I'll run all of the wiring through a new loom by the radiator up to the solenoid. Hopefully it'll look like it's been in there for 17 years without sticking out too much. I will also add a secondary 4 gauge ground.
     
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  4. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    Grounds are important to any electrical system, and especially to
    computers.

    1.) The main power ground is from engine block to battery: it is
    the power ground for the starter & alternator.

    2.) The secondary power ground is between the back of the
    intake manifold and the driver's side firewall. It is often missing or
    loose. It supplies ground for the alternator, A/C compressor
    clutch and other electrical accessories such as the gauges.
    Any car that has a 3G alternator needs a 4 gauge ground wire
    running from the block to the chassis ground where the battery
    pigtail ground connects.
    The 3G has a 130 amp capacity, so
    you wire the power side with 4 gauge wire. It stands to reason
    that the ground side handles just a much current, so it needs to
    be 4 gauge too.

    Picture courtesy timewarped1972 [​IMG]

    3.) The computer has its own dedicated power ground that
    comes off the ground pigtail on the battery ground wire. Due to
    it's proximity to the battery, it may become corroded by acid
    fumes from the battery. It is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long
    by 1" diameter with a black/lt green wire.You'll find it up next to
    the starter solenoid where the wire goes into the wiring harness


    4.) All the sensors have a common separate ground. This
    includes the TPS, ACT, EGE, BAP, & VSS sensors.

    5.) The O2 sensor heaters have their own ground (HEGO ground)
    coming from the computer. This is different and separate from
    the O2 sensor ground. It is in the fuel injector wiring harness and
    comes out under the throttle body. It gets connected to a
    manifold or head bolt.

    6.) The TFI module has 2 grounds: one for the foil shield around
    the wires and another for the module itself. The TFI module
    ground terminates inside the computer.

    7.) The computer takes the shield ground for the TFI module and
    runs it from pin 20 to the chassis near the computer.

    8.) The computer's main power ground (the one that comes from
    the battery ground wire) uses pins 40 & 60 for all the things it
    controls internally.

    See http://www.fluke.com/application_notes/automotive/circuit.asp?AGID=1&SID=103#volt
    for help troubleshooting voltage drops across grounds

    Extra grounds are like the reserve parachute for a sky diver.
    If the main one fails, there is always your reserve.

    The best plan is to have all the grounds meet at one central spot
    and connect together there. That eliminates any voltage drops
    from grounds connected at different places. A voltage drop
    between the computer ground and the alternator power ground will effectively
    reduce the voltage available to the computer by the amount of the drop.
     
    #4
  5. old_blue

    old_blue Active Member

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    I don't know if I have a ground strap on the back of my intake. I need to look at this though
     
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  6. Shakerhood

    Shakerhood Well-Known Member

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    The Factory ground strap back there is just a thin braided small line, I added a H/D wire from the Drivers side Head over to my swaybar body mount just for overkill.
     
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  7. old_blue

    old_blue Active Member

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    yeah I figured it was a rinky dink one. I am getting ready to put on my 6g so I will run a new ground for that as well. thanks
     
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  8. srothfuss

    srothfuss Last night I stabbed the same guy 7 times in a row

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    Today, I started the disassembly of the mechanical fan and stock alternator. I also got to work mocking up the 3G and beginning the wire routing

    Here is my clanky old alternator still attached to the car:
    [​IMG]

    Here is a comparison of the old and new (to me):
    [​IMG]

    The stock 2G pulley didn't fit on my 3G... I have the FFI overdriven pulley on order
    [​IMG]

    The new alternator mocked up. It's ready to be wired in (don't forget the new top bolt)
    [​IMG]

    Here is a comparison between the Mark VIII fan and the stocker.
    [​IMG]

    I'll be finishing up the wiring and the e-fan install this weekend.
     
    #8
  9. Darkwriter77

    Darkwriter77 Resident Ranting Negative Nancy

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    Being that I work at a parts store, myself, I had a bit of an advantage as far as picking one up, but if you're on good terms with any parts store like Autozone or Advance Auto or whomever: ask if they have any Ford alternator cores lying around in the back waiting to ship out, and see if any of them are 3g types. I just dug through my stack of cores for the week, found a nice 3g with a perfectly-matching diameter pulley to the stock 2g unit, and swapped it with the one from my new alternator. Even got the added bonus of bling-bling factor, since the one I swapped on is a shiny gold- or brass-looking piece. :D

    If the parts guy(s) have any common sense and/or decency, they'll know it won't make a bit of difference what kinda pulley is on there when they send the core back, as 9 times outta 10 they put a new one on when they reman the units, anyway. That, and they usually have an electric impact wrench on hand for just that sorta thing - y'know, when you go to buy one for any other car and it has a V-belt pulley instead of a serpentine pulley, or whatever. Of course, they'd likely be more inclined to volunteer this service if you buy the alternator, itself, from them, but still...

    Just the same, you could also hit up the local boneyard with a measuring tape and start popping hoods on every '95+ model Ford product in the lot. I'm sure you could pick up a 6-groove pulley from one for next to nothing, or just buy a whole junk alternator for cheap (or a second 3g alt for a spare, mayhaps).
     
    #9
  10. TRWXXA

    TRWXXA Member

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    RIGHT BEHIND YOU!!!... Made you look.
    After the 3G alternator and wiring upgrade, which wires, if any, can be pulled off the post on the starter solenoid? I'm out of room on my solenoid for any more wires.
     
    #10
  11. srothfuss

    srothfuss Last night I stabbed the same guy 7 times in a row

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    An easy way to get some of the wires off of the solenoid post would be to buy a distribution block from a local audio store. They have setup's with 1 in and 4 out or 1 in and 2 out. This would allow you to remove some of the ring terminals off of the post and probably clean up the look a little more. I must say that I haven't tried this yet though.
     
    #11
  12. srothfuss

    srothfuss Last night I stabbed the same guy 7 times in a row

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    SUCCESS!

    It's all I can really say. I wrapped up the installation of the alternator. The new alternator (even without the FFI underdrive pulley) charges like no other stock unit can. When my FFI pulley gets in, I'll swap it in to compare the results. But so far I am very happy with my results.

    Installing the Mark Viii fan was a pain in the rear though. Be prepared to trim the crap out of the fan shroud if you have a 3 core or thicker radiator. I had to trim almost all of the depth of the shroud off just to get enough clearance to install it. I fabbed up some brackets though, and it's in place now. I can see how a S/C'd car would need a much lower profile fan to do the job.

    The DC Controller is fantastic! Just a note to those that plan to install this in the future: if you have the U/D jumper hooked up you can not use the 12V constant power supply. The fan will just continue to run after the ignition is off. Without the U/D the IGN wire can be hooked up to 12V constant and the fan should run for around 15 seconds after shut down.

    I'll post pictures of the rest of the install later tonight.
     
    #12
  13. 8950HO

    8950HO New Member

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    srothfuss...take a fine wire wheel to that 3g alternator case and it will clean up fine.
    The 3g I got from the wrecker didn`t have that much oxidation as it was a fairly fresh rebuilt unit,but a fine wire wheel made it look like new.

    I used the fine wire wheel on my bench grinder and a small wire wheel on a Dremel like tool for the tight spots.
     
    #13
  14. srothfuss

    srothfuss Last night I stabbed the same guy 7 times in a row

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    When my FFI overdriven pulley comes in, I'll clean up the alternator casing so it doesn't look so horrible. I was more in a hurry to see if I did the swap right
     
    #14
  15. srothfuss

    srothfuss Last night I stabbed the same guy 7 times in a row

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    As promised: Here are the rest of my pictures from the install. The battery died on my camera mid way through today so I am going to skip a little ahead. But, most of this was just running wires through the engine bay which shouldn't really require any photos. The hardest part was for me was finding a switched 12V source in the engine bay to hook up my DCC unit correctly.

    Also, to complete the swap I followed all of the information posted up by JRichker (Technical data) and 04sleeper (FFI overdriven pulley and harness)

    JRichker's Post: Click me!

    04sleeper's Post: Click this one!

    Now for the rest of my pictures....

    Here is the 2G connector. I clipped the harness and taped off the two orange black wires so I wouldn't have to worry about them. The white/black wire was trimmed down and spliced into the 3G harness
    [​IMG]

    As mentioned in all of the technical articles, the white/black wire just loops to the other connecter (the 2G connector plugs right into the 3G alternator)
    [​IMG]

    I removed the air cleaner box and followed the factory harness with a new loom all the way around the front of the car. From the new Alt to the starter solenoid, I needed only 8' of wire. Also, I placed my ANL fuse and holder behind the air cleaner box. This way it's out of sight (looks factory-ish)
    [​IMG]

    This is a random photo of the battery tray area. I ran all of the wires underneath the tray so you can't really tell anything is different
    [​IMG]

    I mounted the DCC unit in front of the battery so all of the wires could be shorter. It was hard to find a flat enough surface to mount it on, but if you work at the positioning, it can be done. (yes, if you payed attention... my ground wire for the fan is red / the power is black)
    [​IMG]

    This photo gives you a better idea of the location I choose
    [​IMG]

    Now for the e-Fan. There isn't really too much to say, except you need to trim the shroud down to get "just enough" clearance. Pay special attention to the positioning of the motor so it clears the W/P and crank pullies. (don't forget to leave room to install and remove the belt.) I found the best position to be shifted to the right. This allowed enough room to re-install the factory catch can
    [​IMG]

    I used some metal strips to make custom mounting brackets. Pay close attention to where you drill, if you do it this way, because you don't want to put a whole in your radiator.
    [​IMG]

    And now, it's all said and done.
    [​IMG]


    Now if only the MODs would make one of these a sticky!
     
    #15
  16. GreatWhite

    GreatWhite Member

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    please do
     
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  17. iwashmycar

    iwashmycar Active Member

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    nice write up!
     
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  18. srothfuss

    srothfuss Last night I stabbed the same guy 7 times in a row

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    I got my FFI pulley in the mail yesterday. I took the following pictures to do a comparion between the 2G stock piece and the 3G stock piece:

    Here is why my stock 2G would not fit on the 3G alternator:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here is what the FFI unit looks like compared to the 3G stocker
    [​IMG]

    And here it is installed
    [​IMG]

    Now, I just need to get a new belt for the car. My tensioner is bottoming out.
     
    #18
  19. iwashmycar

    iwashmycar Active Member

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    one question....why do you need the new pulley??...what is wrong with the stock 3G pulley?
    it seems now it will just charge even more is all..
     
    #19
  20. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Car used in adult film "Highway Gangbang-InDaButt" SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    If you use underdrive pulleys, the alt spins too slow to charge.

    A smaller pulley just spins it back up slightly to compensate.

    You can put the 2G pulley on the alt if you buy a washer that will fit over the shaft of the alt. I bought a hardnened washer from Home Depot that fit perfectly. Ran it for a year before i swapped to an ASP overdrive pulley.
     
    #20

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