S351Saleen77
Member
This is on a engine Dyno not rear wheel.
The torque curve is incredible. It would be a great street engine with this combo.
If you want more HP throw on some bigger heads and more cam !!
351 stroker guys
- Thread starter trav_19
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This is on a engine Dyno not rear wheel.
The torque curve is incredible. It would be a great street engine with this combo.
If you want more HP throw on some bigger heads and more cam !!
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Yep, I was doing my math wrong.
That makes perfect sense to me now. I did great in school when I had the equations, it was when I had to figure what equation to use that it started going downhill.
been there
I have personally built a healthy 347 and a 427w. I know where you are coming from saying that the 351 block is stronger. All you have to do is look it is really a no brainer. The 302 is essentially a stretched 221 right? As far as the power goes, I was blown away the first time I put my foot down on that 427. It supports larger components (heads, cam, intake) AND makes a ton more low end torque. Needless to say my car is nearly useless on the street. It spins the tires any time at free will. I was considering putting a supercharger on my 347, but that would have put me on the verge of the safe limit of the block. You can also think of a 427 as a 347 on 7 pounds of boost. They both consume the same atmosphere. However, I have no fear of my 427 puking out the bottom. To remedy that I am kicking around the idea of E85 and some boost. Just my input, you get a small bock with big block displacement- who doesn't want that?
Also why don't we all get canted valve heads and aluminum dart blocks with twin turbos? Its all about your budget and your goals. Some people are happy with underdrive pulleys, some need more.
I have personally built a healthy 347 and a 427w. I know where you are coming from saying that the 351 block is stronger. All you have to do is look it is really a no brainer. The 302 is essentially a stretched 221 right? As far as the power goes, I was blown away the first time I put my foot down on that 427. It supports larger components (heads, cam, intake) AND makes a ton more low end torque. Needless to say my car is nearly useless on the street. It spins the tires any time at free will. I was considering putting a supercharger on my 347, but that would have put me on the verge of the safe limit of the block. You can also think of a 427 as a 347 on 7 pounds of boost. They both consume the same atmosphere. However, I have no fear of my 427 puking out the bottom. To remedy that I am kicking around the idea of E85 and some boost. Just my input, you get a small bock with big block displacement- who doesn't want that?
Also why don't we all get canted valve heads and aluminum dart blocks with twin turbos? Its all about your budget and your goals. Some people are happy with underdrive pulleys, some need more.
damn, i think i need to get a more agressive intake and cam ....
with coil-overs, strut tower integrity is an issue. the coil-overs put much more stress on the towers.
at least it seemed that way to me. here's why ...
i had coil-overs, and since i had a kenne-bell, i could not have a strut tower brace. after i took the kb out, my brace doesn't fit the same any more because the towers are about 1/2" further apart then they used to be.
i would have had some made...
S351Saleen77
Member
Wow nice you brought back this old thread!
Yeah you are exactly right on the strength when you say "All you have to do is look it is really a no brainer."
I posted years ago look at the 2 side by side (302 VS 351)with your own two eyes...it's obvious. I still can't believe anyone would say there is no difference in Strength.
You make some great comments in here that are also from real experience
nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
Wow nice you brought back this old thread!
Yeah you are exactly right on the strength when you say "All you have to do is look it is really a no brainer."
I posted years ago look at the 2 side by side (302 VS 351)with your own two eyes...it's obvious. I still can't believe anyone would say there is no difference in Strength.
You make some great comments in here that are also from real experience
Sheer size isnt a sign of added strength though. I think part of the debate is some people look at the late model roller 351 blocks as being equal to the older blocks. A respected engine builder who has built many of engines on this site questions it. Just like many take a 302 well above 500rwhp....most agree that after 400rwhp you're playing with fire. I just think that the "playing with fire" zone comes quickest on 302s, then roller 351s, then older 351 blocks. Ofcourse you can get away with varying amounts on each platform.
Also, on the 351 vs. 347 argument....its absolutely hilarious that some of you dont think of the rotational weight that the 351 has to over come. That is why a 347 will be faster if u put the same heads/cam/intake on a stock 351 shortblock. Jay Allen had a customer that actually had a 347 that he broke....so he bought a 351w shortblock and transfered all his stuff to it and went SLOWER down the track.
BlackVert
15 Year Member
comparing a 302 stroked to 347 and a 351 not stroked at all is like comparing a fully grown beagle to a baby doberman. sure, the beagle will be faster under those circumstances. how about comparing it to a fully grown doberman?
and anyone who asserts that a stock 351 block is not stronger than a stock 302 block is completely ridiculous.
302 / 351 block strength comparison - Hardcore 5.0 - The Hardcore Ford Drag Racers Forum
Stock 351W block limits - Hardcore 5.0 - The Hardcore Ford Drag Racers Forum
and anyone who asserts that a stock 351 block is not stronger than a stock 302 block is completely ridiculous.
302 / 351 block strength comparison - Hardcore 5.0 - The Hardcore Ford Drag Racers Forum
Stock 351W block limits - Hardcore 5.0 - The Hardcore Ford Drag Racers Forum
nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
haha...if only engines got faster as they got older on their own.
that would be completely valid if there werent people who actually ran a stock 351 shortblock. Ofcourse it makes up for it when u upgrade the 351...but the ENTIRE POINT of the statement is that a stock 351w will be slower. I've seen many of times on these forums where guys dont think about the rotational mass of the 351....they think "oh, a 351 is bigger than a 347....ofcourse it will be faster!"
BlackVert
15 Year Member
i see your point ... mine was that the an un-stroked stock 351 is at the bottom end of its capability, while a 302 stroked to 347 is at the top end of its capability.
S351Saleen77
Member
I never got into the 347 vs the 351. Yes the 351 would have more mass to rotate.
The thread is supposed to be about 351 Strokers not stock.
I have a late model roller block stroked to a 408 thats around 775-800 crank HP. I have had it going for 8 years now. I have built both 302 based and 351 based motors. 3 years ago in this thread it was brought up that late model 351's are no better strength wise than late model 302 blocks. The person who stated it as far as I know dosen't own a 351 stroker but was going by what his engine builder said. I asked multiple time's for an answer as to why they are not stronger. Never heard anything.
So I still stand by my opinion that they are stronger....because they are!
If anyone can tell me reasons why they think that a HR351 is the same strength as a HR302 Please do so.
The thread is supposed to be about 351 Strokers not stock.
I have a late model roller block stroked to a 408 thats around 775-800 crank HP. I have had it going for 8 years now. I have built both 302 based and 351 based motors. 3 years ago in this thread it was brought up that late model 351's are no better strength wise than late model 302 blocks. The person who stated it as far as I know dosen't own a 351 stroker but was going by what his engine builder said. I asked multiple time's for an answer as to why they are not stronger. Never heard anything.
So I still stand by my opinion that they are stronger....because they are!
If anyone can tell me reasons why they think that a HR351 is the same strength as a HR302 Please do so.
nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
I never got into the 347 vs the 351. Yes the 351 would have more mass to rotate.
The thread is supposed to be about 351 Strokers not stock.
I have a late model roller block stroked to a 408 thats around 775-800 crank HP. I have had it going for 8 years now. I have built both 302 based and 351 based motors. 3 years ago in this thread it was brought up that late model 351's are no better strength wise than late model 302 blocks. The person who stated it as far as I know dosen't own a 351 stroker but was going by what his engine builder said. I asked multiple time's for an answer as to why they are not stronger. Never heard anything.
So I still stand by my opinion that they are stronger....because they are!
If anyone can tell me reasons why they think that a HR351 is the same strength as a HR302 Please do so.
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/5922069-post6.html
S351Saleen77
Member
Good! So heres the first reference to a builder where he states his opinion! I'm glad you posted it thanks!
I still say they are much stronger. For his response there are 10 saying otherwise. I actually have a stroked 408 and I am not posting what someone else says. At my power level which is normally a block splitter for a 302 it is holding up just fine! It even took a dyno pull where the tuner leaned out my DFI and cracked 6 pistons. Didin't hurt anything but the pistons.
Anyway for those that think a 302 is just as strong as a 351 thats great, everyone has their opinion! I still stand behind mine that a 351 is stronger than a 302 period. I highly doubt that a 302 at the power level I have would still be in 1 piece after 8 yrs!
It's funny how a thread starts about stroker 351's and it has to be derailed into 302 vs 351 strength. Bottom line a 351 stroker kit to a 408 or larger is not much $ more ,sometimes less than $100 than a 331 or 347. The big cube stroker will make more HP and Torque evey time.
I still say they are much stronger. For his response there are 10 saying otherwise. I actually have a stroked 408 and I am not posting what someone else says. At my power level which is normally a block splitter for a 302 it is holding up just fine! It even took a dyno pull where the tuner leaned out my DFI and cracked 6 pistons. Didin't hurt anything but the pistons.
Anyway for those that think a 302 is just as strong as a 351 thats great, everyone has their opinion!
I still stand behind mine that a 351 is stronger than a 302 period. I highly doubt that a 302 at the power level I have would still be in 1 piece after 8 yrs!It's funny how a thread starts about stroker 351's and it has to be derailed into 302 vs 351 strength. Bottom line a 351 stroker kit to a 408 or larger is not much $ more ,sometimes less than $100 than a 331 or 347. The big cube stroker will make more HP and Torque evey time.
nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
Good! So heres the first reference to a builder where he states his opinion! I'm glad you posted it thanks!
I still say they are much stronger. For his response there are 10 saying otherwise. I actually have a stroked 408 and I am not posting what someone else says. At my power level which is normally a block splitter for a 302 it is holding up just fine! It even took a dyno pull where the tuner leaned out my DFI and cracked 6 pistons. Didin't hurt anything but the pistons.
Anyway for those that think a 302 is just as strong as a 351 thats great, everyone has their opinion!
It's funny how a thread starts about stroker 351's and it has to be derailed into 302 vs 351 strength. Bottom line a 351 stroker kit to a 408 or larger is not much $ more ,sometimes less than $100 than a 331 or 347. The big cube stroker will make more HP and Torque evey time.
A lot of times guys arent talking to their builders on a message forum. For instance, the 347 vs 351 conversation from Jay Allen came when i had lunch with him one day. Grn92lx (mike) knows his stuff and has experience. Shouldnt be a need to have a direct quote lol.
And beyond that, for every person who says a 302 gets "risky" beyond 400rwhp, you'll have someone say they had one live at 550rwhp. You'll never have 1 power level where people agree. I think Rick was just trying to make a point so guys are aware of the weak spot. Thus....me saying there is a difference between a 69-74, 94-roller 351 and hr302s.
Anywho, to continue the derail.....forget a 351. If you are starting from scratch and have plans to get a k-member and trans....just go LSX or go home :stirpot:
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