Just bought an S-Trim--need help picking out supporting hardware.

TheFleshRocket

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I just bought a used Vortech S-trim from this auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...d=1,1&item=8041008240&sspagename=STRK:MEWN:IT

I'm planning to pick up a set of 42# injectors and a calibrated MAF. I've seen 42# injectors with a 76mm C&L MAF on Ebay which I'm thinking about buying. Thing is, I've seen repeated mention of a 90mm Lightning MAF instead. So my first question is which MAF should I purchase?

(For reference, my '89 GT has GT40XP heads, GT40 upper and lower intakes, 1.7:1 rockers, the F-cam, exhaust, 190lph pump etc. It makes around 280-290rwhp.)

The previous owner said that he didn't use an ignition retard or anything other than the parts he sold me along with the 42# injectors and a 75mm MAF. So is there anything else I should be picking up? Thanks!

<edit> Allow me to clarify--I was posting from my laptop and trying to get the message done before the battery died.

A bigger MAF will obviously flow more air, and so bigger is better, right? But I've seen comments that the 90mm Lightning MAF was designed for OBDII vehicles and won't work with a 5.0 without some sort of rewiring or calibration. Is that correct?

As far as basic ease of installation, is there any difference between going with a 90mm or perhaps a 76mm MAF?

Are there any blow-through MAFs that will work with my S-trim, and is there any reason to want a blow-through as opposed to a suck-through (or whatever they're called :lol: )?

The C&L MAF/FRPP injector combos on Ebay seem to be reasonably priced, at ~$400. Is there any reason that I should another unit, such as a PMAS? Or would a C&L work well?

Thanks!
 
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ponyboy19

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I would use a 75-77mm maf. If you can find a Pro-m 77mm that would be my first choice. I'm not a huge fan of C&L's but the 76mm might be worth a shot. I would swap your 190 lph out for a walbro 255lph high pressure pump. I would also switch over to a MSD ignition to ensure you don't blow spark out. And the most important thing, once you get it all installed, DO NOT SEE BOOST until you have it on a dyno, with a wideband, and a tuner there to adjust fuel and timing curves via a chip. with your mods and boost, the stock computer will be way off and it only takes one trip down detonation avenue to make you think this was a bad idea as your replacing your broken pistons and destroyed engine. Play it safe, get it on a dyno, and dial it in correctly. It will live longer, and make more reliable/safe power. Boost and full timing with no idea where your fuel curve is at is a reciepe for disaster. Good luck.
 

rflow50

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First of all, get some 42lbs injectors, 255lph fuel pump, MSD 6AL, a 90mm MAF and go get the car tuned. I was making 473rwhp with a different intake and 3.33 pulley. Now that i have the Trick Flow R-Series intake i want to get the 2.95 pulley and re-tune the car to see if i can get at least 510-520rwhp.
 

TheFleshRocket

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Aside from simply being larger and able to flow more air, are there any other advantages of the 90MM MAF over a 76mm unit?

And is installation simply a process of finding and hooking up the right plumbing? (IE is there any rewiring or reprogramming required for the 90MM MAF to work properly?)

Regarding a dyno tune, I do intend to have that done as well. But in the meantime, do is it really that important to stay out of boost? I'm sure the air/fuel ratio won't be perfect without a tune, but shouldn't it be "close enough" in the meantime? The 42# injectors (assuming they're supplied with enough fuel volume and pressure) ought to be able to provide a pretty accurate amount of fuel because the MAF will know how much air is going into the engine, and the ECU should be able to provide a pretty good best-guess about how much fuel should be injected. (If I'm wrong, please let me know.)

This is my first forced induction project, so I apologize if any of these questions or comments seem a little dumb or whatever. I'm not looking to go too nuts here--I was originally aiming for the low 400s to the wheels.
 

just4bob50

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rflow50 said:
First of all, get some 42lbs injectors, 255lph fuel pump, MSD 6AL, a 90mm MAF and go get the car tuned. I was making 473rwhp with a different intake and 3.33 pulley. Now that i have the Trick Flow R-Series intake i want to get the 2.95 pulley and re-tune the car to see if i can get at least 510-520rwhp.

I agree also with getting the lightning 90mm MAF. I see that you got a power pipe with the kit also. Well the power pipe is 4" in dia. and so is the 90mm MAF. If you go with a smaller dia. MAF then you are robboing yourself of the benifits of the power pipe. The 90mm MAF will need a new connector and you will only use the wires labled ABCD. They will be the 4 center ones. Your tuner will need a way for the ECU to be programmed to reconize the new meter and inj. I went with SCT chip and tune and it was great. I was still able to drive my car every day when I had to send my charger back for warranty work because the airflow from 2500 rpms on down is almost the same with or without the charger. Buy Ford Racing has the meter and inj. for 319 as a kit. they also sell the proper connector. What ever you decide stay away from C&L meters on boosted applications. The only thing that the tuners I talked to hate more than C&L meters are FMU's. good luck.
 

luckythirteen13

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do not run a c&l with a sc. if you getting the car dyno tuned, dont buy an msd boost retard box just get the 6a or 6al. also upgrade that fuel pump to a 255lph.

as far as the computer know close to the right afr, no way. the way the car works now is under wot the computer has no idea what the afr is. the fpr increases fuel pressure to richen the car up as you push the peddle down. with boost, the fpr cant add any more fuel while under boost then it does the second you hit 0vac. so that means you arent getting any higher fuel pressure and the computer has no idea whats happening. so no, the computer wont get the afr close so dont boost it till on the dyno. when i put my car on the dyno i was dangerously lean by the time the engine made 2psi of boost.
 

TheFleshRocket

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Alright, so a 90mm MAF it is. Do you guys have a link to the combo for $319? That sounds like a great price.

As far as I understand it, the power pipe goes between the supercharger outlet and the throttle body, and is less restrictive than the stock piping. The MAF goes before the supercharger.

Where can I find more information (and where-to-buy) on the "SCT chip and tune"? Is that a device that is simply used to reprogram the stock Ford ECU, or does it piggyback off of the stock ECU?

What's the difference between the 6A and 6AL? (I'll buy one--just tell me which I should get!)

Regarding upgrading from the 190 to a 255lph fuel pump--does the 190 not provide enough fuel volume for a ~450rwhp application? (I've seen a few posts where people mentioned going with 155lph pumps on low-boost supercharged applications, so would I need to go all the way up to a 255 for ~10-12psi?)

Thanks for all the help!!
 

TheFleshRocket

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A couple other questions:

Should I get a wideband O2 sensor? (Is this something that a tuner would need to help tune the car or should I expect that a tuner already has a tailpipe sniffer with the dyno?)

Should I get an exhaust gas temperature gauge?

(I have a buddy who has some experience with turbo 4-bangers and he recommeded both of those gauges so I can monitor the engine's health.)

Any recommendations on a particular boost gauge? And does the gauge hook up to a particular spot on the intake manifold or will I have to fabricate a place to hook it up?
 

rflow50

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this is another place that would give you a good price on the 90mm MAF (www.musclemotors.com). The MAF is 250.00 and the Adapter is 70.00. If you are going to go with this MAF you are going to need the adapter, because the plugs are different. Another thing is that the tune needs to be done right away because the car is going to be missing like crazy, since the computer is not going to be reading the injectors and mass air how its suppose to.

On the guages i went with Auto Meter (Phantom). Also for the boost line go to any Auto Parts Store and get the Cooper line kit, the plastic one is not good it can melt easy.
 

TheFleshRocket

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rflow50 said:
this is another place that would give you a good price on the 90mm MAF (www.musclemotors.com). The MAF is 250.00 and the Adapter is 70.00. If you are going to go with this MAF you are going to need the adapter, because the plugs are different. Another thing is that the tune needs to be done right away because the car is going to be missing like crazy, since the computer is not going to be reading the injectors and mass air how its suppose to.

$250 seems a little pricey for that MAF kit, considering that the 90mm MAF by itself seems to go for under $100. Admittedly, it's got a cone filter (which I don't need) and an adapter plate (which I could probably find an alternative for cheaply) but that stuff doesn't seem worth a $150 premium. And $70 seems kinda high for a simple connector adapter. (I don't want to sound like a cheapass, 'cause I'm not. I just don't want to pay a lot more for something than it's really worth.) Surely a simple cut-and-splice could accomplish what that adapter could for a lot less money, right?

Regarding how the engine will run after installing the MAF--will the car be driveable at all? The nearest shop with a dyno is about 30 miles away, and I don't even know if they have wideband equipment or the know-how to do a dyno tune. St. Louis is about 100 miles away, and I'm sure I'd be able to find someone there, but will I need to have my car towed up there because it just won't run well enough to drive (even if I stay out of boost)?

(And of course continued thanks for the advice to everyone.)
 

TheFleshRocket

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MSD 6A vs. 6AL.. according to Google, the only difference between the two is that the 6AL has a rev limiter option whereas the 6A doesn't. Is that pretty much correct?

Also, I was doing some research about the SCT chip. Just to make sure we're on the same page, this is the part you guys are talking about, right? http://www.mustangtuning.com/sct-4-bank-computer-chip.html It looks like that that chip already comes pre-programmed. Obviously if I'm going to have a dyno tune done, I don't want a pre-tune which probably won't be very accurate. So is it possible to get an SCT chip that's virgin--unprogrammed--instead of one that's already been set up?
 

just4bob50

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TheFleshRocket said:
MSD 6A vs. 6AL.. according to Google, the only difference between the two is that the 6AL has a rev limiter option whereas the 6A doesn't. Is that pretty much correct?

Also, I was doing some research about the SCT chip. Just to make sure we're on the same page, this is the part you guys are talking about, right? http://www.mustangtuning.com/sct-4-bank-computer-chip.html It looks like that that chip already comes pre-programmed. Obviously if I'm going to have a dyno tune done, I don't want a pre-tune which probably won't be very accurate. So is it possible to get an SCT chip that's virgin--unprogrammed--instead of one that's already been set up?

Ya that is what I have on my car. As for ign. I went with the crane HI-6s. It is a plug and play unit with rev limiter and some other features i dont currently use. The nice thing is that it piggy backs the factory ign. so if it fails just unplug it and run the factory ign. Summit sells this kit which has the digital box, coil, and adapter. http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=crane+hi-6s&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp&x=34&y=13
 

just4bob50

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TheFleshRocket said:
$250 seems a little pricey for that MAF kit, considering that the 90mm MAF by itself seems to go for under $100. Admittedly, it's got a cone filter (which I don't need) and an adapter plate (which I could probably find an alternative for cheaply) but that stuff doesn't seem worth a $150 premium. And $70 seems kinda high for a simple connector adapter. (I don't want to sound like a cheapass, 'cause I'm not. I just don't want to pay a lot more for something than it's really worth.) Surely a simple cut-and-splice could accomplish what that adapter could for a lot less money, right?

Regarding how the engine will run after installing the MAF--will the car be driveable at all? The nearest shop with a dyno is about 30 miles away, and I don't even know if they have wideband equipment or the know-how to do a dyno tune. St. Louis is about 100 miles away, and I'm sure I'd be able to find someone there, but will I need to have my car towed up there because it just won't run well enough to drive (even if I stay out of boost)?

(And of course continued thanks for the advice to everyone.)

As for drivability, I was able to drive my car about 40 miles to the tuner. once on the highway i cruised at 2200 rpms and car drove fine, but would not hold an idle when i came to a stop. I also had to back my fuel presure down to about 20 psi base. your tuner will need to be able to have a way to let you ECU recognize your new meter or injectors. If he doesnt dont even bother going because he wont be able to tune it.
 

rflow50

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In my case it was hard to hold my car at idle, it was running real rich, lots of white smoke coming out of my mufflers, couldn't drive it at all.

Also you might want to give Muscle Motors a call, they have kits available like 42lbs injectors and MAF, and they also give you discounts if you ask for them.
 

TheFleshRocket

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If I buy a Crane HI-6 or an MSD 6A, do I need to buy a coil as well, or will the stock coil be sufficient?

The coil is simply responsible for creating the spark and the distributor is responsible for getting that spark to the right cylinder, but what exactly does the 6A or the HI-6 do? Do they supplement the spark output of the coil to provide a stronger spark that stock?

Thanks!!
 

criticman

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Do NOT buy the Crane Hi-6S for a blower application. Anything over 6 psi and it is not going to be good enough. Crane's website even states this.

Go with the standard Hi-6.

In terms of the MSD vs. Crane debate - the best argument I can give for the Crane is that it is Digital, the MSD 6A and 6AL are analog. The Crane unit is also supposedly sealed better and since it is digital, it is solid state and less likely to be harmed by vibrations.

Spark output comparison:
MSD 6A: 115 Millijoules
Crane Hi-6: 1,200 Millijoules

You DO need a new coil to properly utilize the higher output of the new ignition. It is also likely that if you try running the hotter ignition with the stock coil that you will see arcing of spark.

The function of ignition boxes, like the Hi-6 or 6A is to produce a hotter, stronger spark when it is sent to the plug. A lot of ignitions are multi-spark. This means at lower RPMs, they fire multiple sparks per cylinder to allow for better combustion of the fuel, generally producing more lower RPM power and a smoother idle.
 

just4bob50

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criticman said:
Do NOT buy the Crane Hi-6S for a blower application. Anything over 6 psi and it is not going to be good enough. Crane's website even states this.

Go with the standard Hi-6.

In terms of the MSD vs. Crane debate - the best argument I can give for the Crane is that it is Digital, the MSD 6A and 6AL are analog. The Crane unit is also supposedly sealed better and since it is digital, it is solid state and less likely to be harmed by vibrations.

Spark output comparison:
MSD 6A: 115 Millijoules
Crane Hi-6: 1,200 Millijoules

You DO need a new coil to properly utilize the higher output of the new ignition. It is also likely that if you try running the hotter ignition with the stock coil that you will see arcing of spark.

The function of ignition boxes, like the Hi-6 or 6A is to produce a hotter, stronger spark when it is sent to the plug. A lot of ignitions are multi-spark. This means at lower RPMs, they fire multiple sparks per cylinder to allow for better combustion of the fuel, generally producing more lower RPM power and a smoother idle.

I believe you may have read the info wrong on the Crane website there are 4 different level applications that they list. All but one recommend the HI-6s. The only one that does not is for for race or 14:1 and higher compression. The HI-6s but itself is ok to 6lbs of boost, after that they recommend their boost retard module if there is no other means of pulling timing out. The HI-6s puts out 70% more spark than the factory ign. more than enough for boost upto 14lbs.