Why are so guys running TFS Track Heats and Performer RPM intakes????

[wytstang]

You clearly missed my point. Let me try 1 more time A "huge" intake on a dd 302-306 car is NOT overkill. JUst look at the example I posted. That dude uses a holley systemax intake which is similar to an rpm2 which you call 'too much air'. Look at the power it makes and the low end tq is makes. It makes more power than every car in this thread AND has the low end tq for the fun factor. It makes more tq at 3000rpm than you probably make at the peak Again, when matched right to the combo, tell me how that "big" intake is 'too much'?

All this talk makes me wanna do a new motor combo..

That's low . I understand what your saying about matching the right combo. I'm just trying to get info out from anyone I can to learn more. I was pretty much using you

 

[Rootus]

I have two thoughts to add to this discussion:

1. It's not like the Performer is small or something -- my combo pulls hard all the way to 6000. If you're going to keep the stock shortblock for any length of time, you won't be spinning it higher than that, so why try to set something up that is designed to turn more RPM?

2. If you have given Ed all of the relevant information about your car and what your plans are, trust him. He knows more about this than any of us here.

Dave

 

[wytstang]

I have heard good thing about Jay Allen from Cam Innovations. Reall stand up guy from what I have read on Hardcore5.0

 

[nmcgrawj]

I just saw you still had a upper performer intake but you had the lower ported by tmoss. Was this before you put it on or after? What did porting the lower gain you? Did Ed recommend getting that done?

Is your "race weight" just the car or driver too? What size MAF do you have? My heads were milled to get a 59cc so they should give about the same compression ratio as afr 165 which is ______?( whats yours?)

 

[nmcgrawj]

I have two thoughts to add to this discussion:

1. It's not like the Performer is small or something -- my combo pulls hard all the way to 6000. If you're going to keep the stock shortblock for any length of time, you won't be spinning it higher than that, so why try to set something up that is designed to turn more RPM?

2. If you have given Ed all of the relevant information about your car and what your plans are, trust him. He knows more about this than any of us here.

Dave

Thats 2 good points, what would a ported lower result in? More top end? More torque on the low end?

I will have the stock shortblock so i guess the performer is good enough.I think my big thing was i was stuck on getting a TFS piece with the black finish. Any tips on painting the Eddy black?

 

[Rootus]

Thats 2 good points, what would a ported lower result in? More top end? More torque on the low end?

IMO, if the lower is ported so as to match the heads, it can only help -- top and bottom.

I will have the stock shortblock so i guess the performer is good enough.I think my big thing was i was stuck on getting a TFS piece with the black finish. Any tips on painting the Eddy black?

No reason you can't still get a TFS intake ... they have street and track versions similar to Eddy. Just make sure the combo works well together and that Ed knows what you're looking for so he can grind you the right cam, all will be well .

Dave

 

[nmcgrawj]

IMO, if the lower is ported so as to match the heads, it can only help -- top and bottom.

No reason you can't still get a TFS intake ... they have street and track versions similar to Eddy. Just make sure the combo works well together and that Ed knows what you're looking for so he can grind you the right cam, all will be well .

Dave

Hmmm i will look into getting the lower ported to match the portwork on the tfs heads.

He said, and i read elsewhere, that the Eddy Performer has smaller runners so that they give you the higher velocity and better performance compared to TFS. Is TFS that much behind with the Street? Or is the difference neglible. I dont want the reason i dont get the performance to be that i got a TFS Street and not a Eddy Performer.

 

[Grn92LX]

Your gonna use a set of fox lake ported TW heads? By all means use the RPM or a track heat. Have the cam grinder make it all work. Use a 75mm TB and a set of 1 5/8" longtubes. Fwiw, that 86cobra dude I mentioned uses TEA 185cc TW heads and look what he did with a tiny 306 and a holley intake. Food for thought. If you read my posts on other threads, you'll see lots of times I go against the grain. Also, my friends afr headed car with the RPM intake makes good power and his low end is great too. Just because you use an rpm intake doesnt mean "your gonna lose all your tq and only make power up top". If I ever get another cam it'll probably be from jay allen and this is comming from an fti cam owner

 

[nmcgrawj]

Fox Lake is $125 for porting intakes. Im thinking to get the TFS Street intake ported to match the heads. Gotta see what Ed and the other pro's think.

 

[final5-0]

Ok, I took the time to compare my combo with rpm upper to Dave's (HairyCanary) and Greg's (greg@berkeley), both which are similar to mine with the exception of their performer upper.

I don't see that much difference from about 2k to 3500 rpm in the tq numbers.

The rpm upper has always had the rep of hurting the low end tq.

What do ya'll think?

Later
Grady

 

[nmcgrawj]

Your gonna use a set of fox lake ported TW heads? By all means use the RPM or a track heat. Have the cam grinder make it all work. Use a 75mm TB and a set of 1 5/8" longtubes. Fwiw, that 86cobra dude I mentioned uses TEA 185cc TW heads and look what he did with a tiny 306 and a holley intake. Food for thought. If you read my posts on other threads, you'll see lots of times I go against the grain. Also, my friends afr headed car with the RPM intake makes good power and his low end is great too. Just because you use an rpm intake doesnt mean "your gonna lose all your tq and only make power up top". If I ever get another cam it'll probably be from jay allen and this is comming from an fti cam owner

Yea, the TFS heads have a stage 1 job by Fox lake. I already got some 1 5/8" long tubes ready to go on at that time. I do like how you go against the grain....i do it too.

Where can i find Jay Allen? You got a email? What does he charge? Ed is $325 shipped. Like i said, i dont want to leave anything on the table cause i know these heads rock. I do have the stock shortblock with 90k so i cant rev it through the roof, but will an rpm gain more power anywhere if i dont rev it to 6500?

 

[Grn92LX]

[email protected] I think he charges $369 + shipping. I assume those heads have good springs? Use a track heat or an rpm and talk to jay. Chances are he'll send you his cam sheet and give you his thoughts.

 

[nmcgrawj]

Yea the springs are good up to about .575 lift, comp cams i think.

I will give him a shout and see what he says.

 

[click]

Whose Paul?

 

[nmcgrawj]

KillerCanary?

 

[Rootus]

What do ya'll think?

Grady, I think my Performer has a stronger top end torque curve than your RPM does .

Dave

 

[nmcgrawj]

Grady, I think my Performer has a stronger top end torque curve than your RPM does .

Dave

I cant tell if you are serious or not, but they look pretty close. How can you tell? Im new to learning how to read dyno graphs in detail.

 

[Rootus]

I cant tell if you are serious or not, but they look pretty close. How can you tell? Im new to learning how to read dyno graphs in detail.

I'm serious in the sense that I do think I have a bit stronger top end. But I'm also joking around, because it really doesn't matter all that much, they're just dyno graphs anyway. Wouldn't want Grady to think I'm actually picking on him, when I'm not.

But here's what I think I see on our dyno graphs, keep in mind that his is a pretty small pic, and I have mine on paper in front of me.

RPM/Me/Grady

2500/268/270
3000/302/305
3500/320/310
4000/332/315
4500/330/315
5000/315/305
5500/292/280
6000/265/250

On my graph I don't quite pull it to 6000, so I extrapolated a bit. And I tried to make as best a guess I could from Grady's posted graph.

But it's moot anyway, comparing dyno graphs is just for entertainment value. Grady needs to finish his combo, I think his stock MAF & stock TB are hurting him at the top end and killing the value of that RPM intake. He'll probably make more power than my setup when he's done.

Dave

 

[tmoss]

I just saw you still had a upper performer intake but you had the lower ported by tmoss. Was this before you put it on or after? What did porting the lower gain you? Did Ed recommend getting that done?

It was ported before he put it on and did his dyno.

 

[final5-0]

I'm serious in the sense that I do think I have a bit stronger top end. But I'm also joking around, because it really doesn't matter all that much, they're just dyno graphs anyway. Wouldn't want Grady to think I'm actually picking on him, when I'm not.

But here's what I think I see on our dyno graphs, keep in mind that his is a pretty small pic, and I have mine on paper in front of me.

RPM/Me/Grady

2500/268/270
3000/302/305
3500/320/310
4000/332/315
4500/330/315
5000/315/305
5500/292/280
6000/265/250

On my graph I don't quite pull it to 6000, so I extrapolated a bit. And I tried to make as best a guess I could from Grady's posted graph.

But it's moot anyway, comparing dyno graphs is just for entertainment value. Grady needs to finish his combo, I think his stock MAF & stock TB are hurting him at the top end and killing the value of that RPM intake. He'll probably make more power than my setup when he's done.

Dave

First of all, I did ask for everybody's thoughts, so Dave don't worry about me getting upset

I agree that we are kinda bench racing and all but I put on a 65mm tb & 80mm maf and it pulls a good bit harder from the mid to high end rpnge.

The thing I kinda wanted to focus in on is how the low end is close between the three combos but I'm running the upper that is supposed to sacrifice tq on the low end

Anybody else have any thoughts?

Later
Grady