Codes - Mustang Says...

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by Strype, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL
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    See item #30 on the drawing below for the ECT sensor.
    [​IMG]
     
    #21
  2. jcgafford

    jcgafford Advanced Member

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    Beeping?
     
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  3. Strype

    Strype Cuthbert catcher
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    NICE diagram! Right click save. I've actually replaced one of those before but I don't remember what car or what it was doing. I'm going to start keeping a journal.

    Let's not get into the beeping. I get a nervous tick thinking about it. Well I didn't get to run the bloody codes. Kids are asleep but I may feel froggy and do it anyway.
     
    #23
  4. Strype

    Strype Cuthbert catcher
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    Well that doesn't help... I may not be God's gift to cars but, wtf. Really.

    image.jpg
     
    #24
  5. Strype

    Strype Cuthbert catcher
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    Bought this a couple of years ago but it has a vacuum advance... Any way to make it work? Or should I Craigslist it?

    image.jpg
     
    #25
  6. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL
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    That's a distributor for a carb car. It's not really suited for you application since it also has mechanical spark advance. I would only use it if I was stranded in the middle of nowhere with no money and no communication to the outside world.

    The computer controls the spark advance on EFI engines, and combining that with the mechanical advance could cause excessive spark advance and more problems. You best bet is to sell it or trade it for a distributor made for your EFI system.
     
    #26
  7. Strype

    Strype Cuthbert catcher
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    :nice:
     
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  8. Strype

    Strype Cuthbert catcher
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    I changed the ECT just in case, changed dizzy cap and rotor button, set the TPS to .98. I did the diagnostic again. This time I got results.
    :(

    KOEO
    11

    KOER
    21 ECT
    41 Passenger O2 Lean (why? 190lph pump and 24lb injectors!)
    91 Driver O2 Lean
    33 No EGR (duh)
    18 SPOut circuit open, possible bad TFI, possible ground in wire to computer
    13 Idle too high

    I revved to 3,000 RPM

    2
    2

    Which I'm guessing is Cylinder 2 didn't pass the balance test? I'll cry. I will seriously cry. I've done a compression check before, but it has used 24lb injectors now and the valve train has been done again. I'll check the spark plug too.

    Found this:
    http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/cylinder-balance-test.695039/
     
    #28
  9. jcgafford

    jcgafford Advanced Member

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    better, except for that balance test...
     
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  10. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL
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    Code 13 - Key on Engine off - ISC did not respond properly (extends to touch throttle then retracts for KOEO) – ISC

    Key on Engine running - Idle Speed Control motor or Air Bypass not controlling idle properly (generally idle too high)

    If your idle is above 725 RPM, the computer will set this code. Normal idle speed is 650-725 RPM. Higher than that means that someone has mechanically set the idle speed by use of the idle speed screw, and has effectively disabled to computer’s ability to control idle speed.

    Do the "Surging Idle Checklist , it will help you find and fix the problem easier. fix all the codes and then do the base idle speed setting procedure to get the idle speed set correctly.


    Code 18 - SPOUT out or wiring fault - look for short to ground in SPOUT wiring going
    back to the computer. Possible bad TFI or defective 22 K resistor in the IDM wiring

    This code can disable spark advance and reduce power and fuel economy.

    Remove the passenger side kick panel and disconnect the computer connector.
    There is a 10 MM bolt that holds it in place.
    Disconnect the TFI module connector from the TFI and the measure the resistance between the yellow/lt green wire and ground.
    You should see greater than 100 K (100000) ohms.
    Check the resistance from Pin 4 on the computer connector (dark green/yellow) and the dark green/yellow wire on the TFI connector. You should see 20-24 K Ohms (20,000-24,0000 ohms). The resistor is located in the wiring harness about 6” from the connector. You will need solder and heat shrink to replace the resistor if it is bad.
    Next measure the resistance between the yellow/lt green wire on the TFI module connector and
    Pin 36 on the computer connector. With the SPOUT plug in place, you should see less than 2 ohms.

    The following is a view from the computer side of the computer connector.
    [​IMG]

    This diagram is the wire side of the computer connector.
    [​IMG]

    Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

    [​IMG]



    Code 41 or 91 Three digit code 172 or 176 - O2 sensor indicates system lean. Look for a vacuum leak or failing O2 sensor.

    Revised 06-Sep-2012 remove smog pump crossover tube reference

    Code 41 is a RH side sensor,
    Code 91 is the LH side sensor.

    Code 172 is the RH side sensor
    Code 176 is the LH side sensor

    The computer sees a lean mixture signal coming from the O2 sensors and tries to compensate by adding more fuel. Many times the end result is an engine that runs pig rich and stinks of unburned fuel.

    The following is a Quote from Charles O. Probst, Ford fuel Injection & Electronic Engine control:
    "When the mixture is lean, the exhaust gas has oxygen, about the same amount as the ambient air. So the sensor will generate less than 400 Millivolts. Remember lean = less voltage.

    When the mixture is rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust than in the ambient air , so voltage is generated between the two sides of the tip. The voltage is greater than 600 millivolts. Remember rich = more voltage.

    Here's a tip: the newer the sensor, the more the voltage changes, swinging from as low as 0.1 volt to as much as 0.9 volt. As an oxygen sensor ages, the voltage changes get smaller and slower - the voltage change lags behind the change in exhaust gas oxygen.

    Because the oxygen sensor generates its own voltage, never apply voltage and never measure resistance of the sensor circuit. To measure voltage signals, use an analog voltmeter with a high input impedance, at least 10 megohms. Remember, a digital voltmeter will average a changing voltage." End Quote

    Testing the O2 sensors 87-93 5.0 Mustangs
    Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear.

    Disconnect the O2 sensor from the harness and use the body side O2 sensor harness as the starting point for testing. Do not measure the resistance of the O2 sensor , you may damage it. Resistance measurements for the O2 sensor harness are made with one meter lead on the O2 sensor harness and the other meter lead on the computer wire or pin for the O2 sensor.

    Backside view of the computer wiring connector:
    [​IMG]

    87-90 5.0 Mustangs:
    Computer pin 43 Dark blue/Lt green – LH O2 sensor
    Computer pin 29 Dark Green/Pink – RH O2 sensor
    The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.

    91-93 5.0 Mustangs:
    Computer pin 43 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
    Computer pin 29 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
    The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a Gray/Lt blue wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a Red/Black wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


    Testing the O2 sensors 94-95 5.0 Mustangs
    Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a red/black wire) and 27 (RH O2 with a gray/lt blue wire). Use pin 32 (gray/red wire) to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


    Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter. Do not attempt to measure the resistance of the O2 sensors, it may damage them.

    Testing the O2 sensor wiring harness
    Most of the common multimeters have a resistance scale. Be sure the O2 sensors are disconnected and measure the resistance from the O2 sensor body harness to the pins on the computer. Using the Low Ohms range (usually 200 Ohms) you should see less than 1.5 Ohms.

    87-90 5.0 Mustangs:
    Computer pin 43 Dark blue/Lt green – LH O2 sensor
    Computer pin 29 Dark Green/Pink – RH O2 sensor
    Disconnect the connector from the O2 sensor and measure the resistance:
    From the Dark blue/Lt green wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Dark blue/Lt green wire on the computer pin 43
    From the Dark Green/Pink wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Dark Green/Pink wire on the computer pin 43

    91-93 5.0 Mustangs:
    Computer pin 43 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
    Computer pin 29 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
    Disconnect the connector from the O2 sensor and measure the resistance:
    From the Red/Black wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Red/Black wire on the computer pin 43
    From the Dark Green/Pink Gray/Lt blue wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Gray/Lt blue wire on the computer pin 29

    94-95 5.0 Mustangs:
    Computer pin 29 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
    Computer pin 27 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
    From the Red/Black wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Red/Black wire on the computer pin 29
    From the Dark Green/Pink Gray/Lt blue wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Gray/Lt blue wire on the computer pin 27

    There is a connector between the body harness and the O2 sensor harness. Make sure the connectors are mated together, the contacts and wiring are not damaged and the contacts are clean and not coated with oil.

    The O2 sensor ground (orange wire with a ring terminal on it) is in the wiring harness for the fuel injection wiring. I grounded mine to one of the intake manifold bolts

    Make sure you have the proper 3 wire O2 sensors. Only the 4 cylinder cars used a 4 wire sensor, which is not compatible with the V8 wiring harness.

    Replace the O2 sensors in pairs if replacement is indicated. If one is weak or bad, the other one probably isn't far behind.

    If you get only code 41 and have changed the sensor, look for vacuum leaks. This is especially true if you are having idle problems. The small plastic tubing is very brittle after many years of the heating it receives. Replace the tubing and check the PVC and the hoses connected to it.


    Wow, that was a very old thread. Here's an updated version of the cylinder balance test...

    Cylinder balance test: use this to find dead or weak cylinders:

    Revised 25 March 2012 to add necessity allowing the KOEO tests to finish before starting the engine and the need for a properly functioning IAB/IAC to run the cylinder balance test.

    The computer has a cylinder balance test that helps locate cylinders with low power output. You’ll need to dump the codes out of the computer and make sure that you have the A/C off, clutch depressed to the floor and the transmission in neutral. Fail to do this and you can’t do the engine running dump codes test that allows you to do the cylinder balance test.

    Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

    Be sure to turn off the A/C clutch depressed to the floor, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.


    Here's how to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

    [​IMG]

    The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

    89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.

    [​IMG]

    The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.


    WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.

    What to expect:
    You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and drivability problems

    Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

    Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, clutch depressed to the floor and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.

    Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

    Cylinder balance test

    If you have idle or IAC/IAB problems and the engine will not idle on its own without mechanically adjusting the base idle speed above 625-750 RPM, this test will fail with random cylinders pointed out every time it runs. The IAC/IAB must be capable of controlling the engine speed to run in the 1400-1600 RPM range. Playing with the base idle speed by adjusting it upwards will not work, the computer has to be able to control the engine speed using the IAC/IAB.

    Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. Use a jumper wire or paper clip to put the computer into test mode. Let it finish the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) code dump. Start the engine and let it go through the normal diagnostic tests, then quickly press the throttle to the floor. Remember to keep the clutch pedal (5 speed) depressed to the floor during the test. The engine RPM should exceed 2500 RPM's for a brief second. The engine RPM's will increase to about 1450-1600 RPM and hold steady. The engine will shut off power to each injector, one at a time. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors, it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to 2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures.
    Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop manual for the complete test procedure


    Do a compression test on all the cylinders.
    Take special note of any cylinder that shows up as weak in the cylinder balance test. Low compression on one of these cylinders rules out the injectors as being the most likely cause of the problem. Look at cylinders that fail the cylinder balance test but have good compression. These cylinders either have a bad injector, bad spark plug or spark plug wire. Move the wire and then the spark plug to another cylinder and run the cylinder balance test again. If it follows the moved wire or spark plug, you have found the problem. If the same cylinder fails the test again, the injector is bad. If different cylinders fail the cylinder balance test, you have ignition problems or wiring problems in the 10 pin black & white electrical connectors located by the EGR.

    How to do a compression test:
    Only use a compression tester with a screw in adapter for the spark plug hole. The other type leaks too much to get an accurate reading. Your local auto parts store may have a compression tester to rent. If you do mechanic work on your own car on a regular basis, it would be a good tool to add to your collection.

    With the engine warmed up, remove all spark plugs and prop the throttle wide open with a plastic screwdriver handle between the throttle butterfly and the throttle housing. Crank the engine until it the gage reading stops increasing. On a cold engine, it will be hard to tell what's good & what's not. Some of the recent posts have numbers ranging from 140-170 PSI. If the compression is low, squirt some oil in the cylinder and do it again – if it comes up, the rings are worn. There should be no more than 10% difference between cylinders. Use a blow down leak test (puts compressed air inside cylinders) on cylinders that have more than 10% difference.

    I generally use a big screwdriver handle stuck in the TB between the butterfly and the TB to prop the throttle open. The plastic is soft enough that it won't damage anything and won't get sucked down the intake either.

    A battery charger (not the trickle type) is a good thing to have if you haven't driven the car lately or if you have any doubts about the battery's health. Connect it up while you are cranking the engine and it will help keep the starter cranking at a consistent speed from the first cylinder tested to the last cylinder.

    See the link to my site for details on how to build your own blow down type compression tester.
     
    #30
  11. Strype

    Strype Cuthbert catcher
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    #2 Cylinder. Still wet after 2 hours. Gas. Soooo... Stuck injector?


    plug2.jpg
     
    #31
  12. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Car used in adult film "Highway Gangbang-InDaButt"
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    Try swapping two injectors and see if the cylinder balance test follows the swapped injector. If so, it's possible the injector is stuck open.

    Unplug the injector first and put a multimeter on and check resistance. Should be around 14.4 ohms.


    Also...code 21....are you warming the car up to temp before running the tests?
     
    #32
  13. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL
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    Stuck injector electrical test...

    The red wire on each injector is powered up whenever the ignition switch is
    in the Run position. The computer provides a ground to complete the circuit
    and fire the injector. The injector must have a ground to squirt fuel on
    command. A short to ground in the injector return wiring can cause one or
    more injectors to be continually open or triggered
    A.) A Noid light available from Autozone, is one way to test
    the injector wiring. If the light stays on constantly, either the wiring has a
    short to ground or the computer has failed

    B.) I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the
    injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing
    up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy
    water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector
    fires, it makes bubbles An injector stuck open will release a continual stream
    of bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.
    The same trick works great to find leaking injectors too.​
    The wiring for the injectors may have some bare spots in it causing the
    injector to computer control wire to ground out. This would cause the
    injector to remain on anytime the key was in the Run position. Remove the
    injector wiring connectors from the injector. Note that each injector has one
    red wire for power and a non red wire (wire some color other than red) for
    computer controlled ground. With the key off, disconnect the computer
    connector from the computer. Use an Ohmmeter between the non red wire
    and ground. You should see more than 100000 (100K) ohms resistance.


    See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) &
    Stang&2Birds (website host) for help wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/

    Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

    [​IMG]

    Using the above diagram, check the resistance between the injector and the
    computer. Clean and check the 10 pin connectors since they are a potential
    trouble source. Any resistance greater than 1.5 ohm between the injector to
    computer wire and the matching pin on the computer connector is a problem.

    See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.
    [​IMG]
     
    #33
  14. Strype

    Strype Cuthbert catcher
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    Plug 3 as well... Kids and wife say gas smell. Me? I'm not so sure. Could be antifreeze or oil. Oil was JUST changed. Sometimes the dipstick smells of gas. Something is awry. Plug 1 is ok and dry. I hope it isn't a head gasket.

    And the fuel pressure has been holding better than ever.

    plug 3.jpg
     
    #34
  15. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Car used in adult film "Highway Gangbang-InDaButt"
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    So if you run the CBT three times in a row, do you get cylinder 2 all three times?
     
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  16. Strype

    Strype Cuthbert catcher
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    Haven't tried. Will tomorrow. My buddy thinks it's old gas given the color but why on 2 injectors? And I swear that these same 2 were wet before. Same 2. I WILL FIGURE THIS OUT!!!!!!!

    Brand new taylor wires, plugs, cap, button... Those injectors are used.
     
    #36
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  17. Strype

    Strype Cuthbert catcher
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    2 wet plugs right next to each other. I think bent valves or head gasket leak. What say you?
     
    #37
  18. Strype

    Strype Cuthbert catcher
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    A few things...

    1) When I spray carb cleaner where the upper intake meets the lower, the engine revs.
    2) Both #2 and #3 plugs are wet with a kind of varnish - They've done this before, were replaced, and wet again.
    3) I did a compression check a year or so ago and everything was reading 120, nothing has changed since except for the injectors and the rockers have been readjusted
    4) The car is running like complete ass at idle, but when warm it drives fine except for the miss
    5) I have smelled gas in the oil a few times

    Here's a post by me from November of 2009... I wrote the fuel in oil and on plugs off as washing out the cylinders. I'm wondering if the phenolic spacer is letting vacuum through, and somehow causing these two cylinders to wash out? :shrug:

    If this continues I may just park the damn thing for another 4 years.

     
    #38
  19. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Car used in adult film "Highway Gangbang-InDaButt"
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    #1) is a vacuum leak. Try replacing the upper to lower gasket. Usually such leaks are from where the lower intake bolts to the engine block so double check this

    #2) After fixing number 1, id recheck and swap the injectors over to other cylinders and see if the issue follows the injectors

    #3) Unless something foreign went into the engine, i wouldn't really suspect bent valve or bad gasket...unless you know of something that happened to cause bent valves and such.

    #4) could be related to #1

    #5) Couble be related to #2. Injectors that are stuck open flood the cylinder and the gas gets by the rings and ends up in the oil.

    Starting to think you have 2 bad injectors
     
    #39
  20. Strype

    Strype Cuthbert catcher
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    Thanks dude. I was just talking to my friend who helped me build the motor. We are thinking the same thing. Plan of action:

    1) Take that _______ _______ ____ __ ____ BBK SSI intake off and bury it in the back yard. I think the pheolic spacer is leaking. Put the old Explorer intake I have lying around back on with the stock fuel rails.

    2) Buy brand new 24lb injectors and install. This will take some time to save up.

    I think every problem I've had for years now is somehow related to this sorry intake and the used injectors I put on. If I do all of this and still have wet plugs I'll be at a complete loss.
     
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