intake/head combos

[Grn92LX]

Little perfomance, huh? They're just the best heads on the market....

I'll say it once and I'll say it again: AFR are THE BEST heads on the market, period - end of discussion. Not only are they the best, but they use the stock valve angles - something TFS and (I believe) Canfield don't do. They don't raise their ports for more efficiency like Canfield does, and they don't need special headers; something TFS does. Does Canfield? I'm not sure...

Quantify your reasoning. I'll bet you can't. I'll bet few can.

Joe

I completely disagree. Who woulda thunk it? Trickflow TW do NOT have raised exhaust ports and do NOT require special headers. Hi ports and R heads do. AFR 205+ do have raised exh ports, but not 165 and 185. Trickflows to have rotated valves which they say 'optomizes' it according to their site. I've said this a billion times, but lets make it a billion and 1, its ALL in the combination. I made plenty of under the curve torque and I know zenboy does as well with our TW. AFR's are NOT the best, trickflow is NOT the best and so on. The 'best' is what gets you what you want with the proper well thought out combination. I paid $935 for my TW heads over 3 years ago and afr's did not offer me $300-$400 more performance. Like I said, I have friends with all 3 of the main 5.0 heads and we all run good.

 

[25thmustang]

I do have to say something, even though they dont touch a good aftermarket head, the stock E7s have a LOT of potential in them. Mine are unported (still have exhaust bumps and all) with a set of GT-40 (1.84/1.54) valves, and rockers. These heads on a stock bottem end, stock cam, and a unported Cobra intake made 272 rwhp/ 316 rwtq! I might be porting these heads this winter, and with a ported stock intake I am looking in the 285-290 rwhp range (might have to short belt it to get those numbers) all from stock castings. Now I am not one for dyno numbers, but it seems the only way to compare here.

As far as aftermarket heads go, I have never used a set in my life, but from what i know the AFRs are hard to beat, the TFSs have been proven over the years, and I have actually heard a bit of complaints from the E-brocks.

 

[mystang94gt]

I do have to say something, even though they dont touch a good aftermarket head, the stock E7s have a LOT of potential in them. Mine are unported (still have exhaust bumps and all) with a set of GT-40 (1.84/1.54) valves, and rockers. These heads on a stock bottem end, stock cam, and a unported Cobra intake made 272 rwhp/ 316 rwtq! I might be porting these heads this winter, and with a ported stock intake I am looking in the 285-290 rwhp range (might have to short belt it to get those numbers) all from stock castings. Now I am not one for dyno numbers, but it seems the only way to compare here.

As far as aftermarket heads go, I have never used a set in my life, but from what i know the AFRs are hard to beat, the TFSs have been proven over the years, and I have actually heard a bit of complaints from the E-brocks.

Now those #'s are very impressive. What do you think is the biggest thing helping you make those #'s? Is changing to gt40 valves and rockers going to help that much? Or do you have something else helping your cause?

 

[25thmustang]

I think its the valves... I know my dads unported GT-40Ps made about 10 more hp than mine, and a few other friends have made 15 or so with GT-40Ps and 40s. The tiny valves in the E7s suck, and Im sure most of that power comes from them! I have seen guys gain 30 rwhp or so from porting the stock heads as well (not sure if it was JUST heads they did, but thats all it claimed). If these hold anything true, I should meet my goals, and be able to surprise a few people!

 

[revhead347]

I had a friend run 12.8 on a set of ported and milled E7s with a Steeda #18 cam, and a Cobra intake. He had the stock valves in them. The heads don't run that bad once you open up the exhaust ports a little.

Kurt

 

[25thmustang]

Thats why Im hopinh 12.4s before suspension and porting, and then low 12s, high 11s with it!

 

[Joes95GT]

I think you mean Qualify your reason.

No, I meant quantify.

I know 2 guys that bought AFR 165s. One guy put them in a Lighting, and the truck ran 1/10th slower. The other put them on a stang, and it picked a whopping 2/10ths.

I'm assuming the lightning was the stock 351 with GT40 heads on it? If so, then he did something wrong. What kind of heads did the Mustang have on it before the swap? You never mentioned how the MPHs were affected either.

They are decent heads, but not for the money.

That's what you should have said the first time...

TFS and Canfield heads change valve angles and exhaust ports to get more performance. That's what makes it a high performance head. A 17 degree head is limited. 21 degree heads just perform better.

Canfield heads have 18* valve angles. TFS has 15* (I think). Stock is 20*. Canfield heads have 170cc intake ports with 2.02" intake valves. AFR use a 165cc intake port with 1.90" intake valves. You know what that means? Velocity and airspeed. Velocity and airspeed = cylinder fill. Cylinder fill = horsepower. I hate using flow numbers, but I wish I had numbers off of the same bench, using the same bore size, to compare the two.

If you want to see what head is the best look at the competitors in NMRA. Almost every single top ten runner was using either old TFS hiports or Canfields, until they took them off the approved cylinder head list.

Moot point. "Used to" means nothing. Brodix now dominates.

AFR 220 heads make huge hp numbers, but they want more money for that than a Canfield, and it is no where near a Canfield in performance.

I sincerely hope you're kidding. Big Jay just put down 700+ RWHP with 10 psi and a 205 headed 347. I'd love to see what would happen if he swapped to Canfields and dyno'ed the car, then put AFR 225's on and see what happened. Comparing the Canfield to the AFR 165 is hard enough. Comparing it to the 225 is ridiculous. The 225 is a RACE HEAD!

Trickflow TW do NOT have raised exhaust ports

Mike, I never said they did.

...and do NOT require special headers.

I guess I should clarify myself, so I don't sound like an idiot next time. The R heads do require special headers, and that's what I was referring to.

Fire away...

Joe

 

[SuperDust22]

Big Jay just put down 865 @ 14psi the other day. That thing is insane.

Dustin

 

[revhead347]

Suit yourself, but no AFR head will ever touch a fully ported Canfield head. I'll stand by it.

By the way, the guy who built my motor put 625 to the wheels through a power glide on a 347 with 0 psi and a set of Canfields. That's why Canfields aren't on the approved list.

Just flip through the list of winners in just about any class of NMRA, and count how many of them are running AFRs. It's just not a competitive head.

Kurt

 

[revhead347]

No, I meant quantify. I'm assuming the lightning was the stock 351 with GT40 heads on it? If so, then he did something wrong.

Yeah, I already said that he did something very wrong; he wasted money on AFR heads.

The mustang had stock heads on it before.

Kurt

 

[Rootus]

Just flip through the list of winners in just about any class of NMRA, and count how many of them are running AFRs. It's just not a competitive head.

How has this argument got ANYTHING to do with 99% of the people reading this forum? Please go install a set of Canfields on a 5.0L stock shortblock and see if it makes more peak or under-the-curve horsepower than a set of AFR's. THAT is a comparison that would be relevant to the readers in this forum.

Dave

 

[revhead347]

The point is that a Canfield cylinder head is a better deal for the money. Edelbrock makes a better head for less money than the AFRs. You will make more power and spend less money. I think that is relevant to this forum.

Kurt

 

[GTJake]

The point is that a Canfield cylinder head is a better deal for the money. Edelbrock makes a better head for less money than the AFRs. You will make more power and spend less money. I think that is relevant to this forum.

Kurt

Lots of ignorant statements right there. AFRs may not be the best bang for the buck, but whatever, it's all in what people want from their car. So maybe I should just rip my AFRs off and get a set of Edelbrocks or Canfields and make tons more power?

Jake

 

[Rootus]

The point is that a Canfield cylinder head is a better deal for the money. Edelbrock makes a better head for less money than the AFRs. You will make more power and spend less money. I think that is relevant to this forum.

Prove it to me. At the very least, someone buy a set of Canfields and put them on a stock shortblock 5.0L. Then we'll see how they compare to a set of AFR 165's. Jake is putting down 325 rwhp and 341 rwtq on a fairly low mileage stock shortblock, so that seems like a good target to aim for.

It seems to me that you are continuing to spew forth opinion without having anything even remotely approaching fact to back it up. There are already independent controlled tests showing AFR makes a superior product, so I'd like to see something at least as reliable to demonstrate how Canfields or Edelbrocks are better. Otherwise everything you have alleged is just bad advice to the people reading this forum and you are doing them a disservice.

Dave

 

[maverick0716]

Canfields are a high rpm race head. You can't compare them to AFR 165's. The other guys are right, if you put AFR's on a stock shortblock and compare them to Canfields on a stock shortblock the AFR's will make way more usable hp.

 

[GTJake]

LOL...this is too funny to me. I just found my Sep. 2003 issue of MM&FF where they dyno test a dozens of cylinder heads.

Canfield 170cc:

Peak HP: 371 @ 5800
Peak TQ: 368 @ 4600
Average HP: 280.19
Average TQ: 344.47
Cost Per HP: $18.45

AFR 165cc:

Peak HP: 396 @ 5800
Peak TQ: 378 @ 4700
Average HP: 288.89
Average TQ: 353.86
Cost Per HP: $14.43

LOL....every argument you have was just shattered.

Hmm....maybe I'll keep my POS AFRs

Jake

 

[HoofnIt]

You are not only OWNED but OWNED in EVERY POSSIBLE WAY!!!

 

[final5-0]

Lots of ignorant statements right there. AFRs may not be the best bang for the buck, but whatever, it's all in what people want from their car. So maybe I should just rip my AFRs off and get a set of Edelbrocks or Canfields and make tons more power?

Jake

I gotta agree with Jake on all of these which heads kind of threads.

It really does depend on what you want from your combo.

If max power on a full tilt high rpm motor for the strip is your thing then your head choice might not be the best head for a street car that will most likely will never see the strip.

Later
Grady

 

[SuperDust22]

Canfields are not really made for the small block 302. They are a race style head. And I don't believe you got a worst ET with going to the AFR. Something else must have been wrong. I am looking into getting a set of Canfields for my 351W. I think I might be able to make more power for what I am doing. I still have a lot of research though. The AFR heads have been proven time and time again. Yes, they cost more but you get more power. Any aftermarket head is going to be better than the E7's stock or ported. I am not saying you can't make good power but you will make more with TFS, AFR or Edelbrock. The number one thing though is how well you combo fits together. If you buy AFR heads and then have a ****ty intake and cam you will make ****ty power.

Dustin

 

[EDC]

I think you mean Qualify your reason. But anyone. I know 2 guys that bought AFR 165s. One guy put them in a Lighting, and the truck ran 1/10th slower.

Wrong application for a 165 head...

Should have spent the extra $25 and got a set of 185 heads...

The other put them on a stang, and it picked a whopping 2/10ths.

Let's see the data.

Same day?
Same conditions?
Tuned or just "bolted on"?

Misleading as heck!

They are decent heads, but not for the money.

The cost per HP is documented...

AFR wins...

TFS and Canfield heads change valve angles and exhaust ports to get more performance. That's what makes it a high performance head.

A lesson in heads...

The AFR 165 heads have the stock OEM 20* valve angle.
They have stock intake valve locations.
They have stock exhaust valve locations.
They have stock exhaust port locations.
They have a 1.90-1.60 valve size that fit stock pistons.
They have a smaller cross section than most aftermarket heads.

The TFS TW head has rolled the valve angles to 15* and 17* for more flow.
They rotated the valves around the bore center for more flow.
They use a 2.02 intake valve to increase flow.
They use a shorter intake port for more flow.
They have a larger cross section to increase flow.

~~~ The bigger stuff ~~~~

The Canfields have the stock OEM 20* valve angle.
They move the intake valve .100" towards center of bore for more flow.
They move the exhaust valve .060" away from center of bore for more flow.
They raise the exhaust port .400" for more flow.
They use a 197 cc intake port for more flow.
They have a 2.02-1.60 valve size that require flycutting or non-stock pistons.
They have a larger cross section for more flow.

The TFS High Ports have the stock OEM 20* valve angle.
They move the intake valve .110" towards center of bore for more flow.
They move the exhaust valve .080" away from center of bore for more flow.
They raise the exhaust port .750" for more flow.
They use a 192 cc intake port for more flow.
They have a 2.02-1.60 valve size that require flycutting or non-stock pistons.
They have a larger cross section for more flow.

The AFR 185 heads have the stock OEM 20* valve angle.
They have stock intake valve locations.
They have stock exhaust valve locations.
They have stock exhaust port locations.
They have a 2.02-1.60 valve size that require flycutting or non-stock pistons.
They have a smaller cross section than most aftermarket heads.


NOW...

Compare flow numbers per valve size and port size and see why the AFR 165 and 185 heads are the better choice!

Also look for the SN95 people running heavyass street cars and see how well they run with those tiny AFR 165 heads...

A 17 degree head is limited.

BULL!

21 degree heads just perform better.

Even more BULL!

Explain why the best inline valve racing head is 15* then???
The Edelbrock Victor!

And WTF does racing have to do with this street car anyway????

YOU KNOW NOTHING!

Canfield advertises a high port design, but both TFS heads, and Canfields work with factory height headers.

NO they won't.
Hooker lists different headers as does Pro Mustang and Kooks... WHY???

The Canfield's exhaust ports are .400" higher...
The TFS High Port's exhaust ports are .750 higher...

YOU KNOW NOTHING!

If you want to see what head is the best look at the competitors in NMRA. Almost every single top ten runner was using either old TFS hiports or Canfields, until they took them off the approved cylinder head list.

MORE BULL!

Show me where the Canfields and TFS High Ports are not listed. Which class?

But again with the race-only thing...

YOU KNOW NOTHING!

AFR 220 heads make huge hp numbers, but they want more money for that than a Canfield, and it is no where near a Canfield in performance.

Kurt

PROVE IT!!!!

Give examples!!!

Ed