Thanks. I'm sorry, I know it's not your fault. I'm just so sick of the rabbit hole going deeper and deeper and deeper. The damn performance part companies do so much assuming that you know what to do with these parts and what's involved with them. But then they insult your intelligence with what they DO put in the directions. "install larger sprocket on the camshaft" stuff like that. Yeah, thanks. How about some information I can use, like what's this brass washer and what the hell do i do with it?! "Here buy this shiny new part, it will make your car go faster!" But then, once you have it, only then do you find out, oh wait, there's all these other parts and processes you need to make it work.Hi Zephyr, They just- don’t. I’d called many years ago regarding this same question, response was “it’s left thicker to accommodate the differences in retaining Plate thickness”, “Sand it down with paper until it fits properly” Told them I had a Lathe- same response, I asked what the endplay tolerance was, they didn’t have one established.
Went through the same, identical thing.
If you want to chat, I’ll message my phone #.(?)
Thanks, I'll try that first.Zephyr, First TRY the Washer on the Cam Gear and tighten the Cam Bolt to see if it does, indeed- bind. If the Bolt is tight & the Cam spins freely, you may not have to do anything but install it.
Just establish if it requires modifying first. The #1 reason they supply this is due to the Billet Gear, but serves the same function as the Torrington the Cam MFG recommends..
Alright so we've got an update. I would not go so far as to say it spins FREELY with the washer installed, but I CAN turn it with the long 1/2" ratchet I've been using to do that. So, maybe we shave a little off.Hi, I LIVE for Tangents!
The Bronze washer you have is actually a Thrust washer, performs the same function of a Torrington Thrust setup, which are Needle Bearings, internally. (Most ALL Torrington setups require the engine Blocks OE Bolt circle of the Thrust plate to be enlarged, slightly.(Machine Shop Job))The purpose of the plate is for a few reasons.
It’s AKA; Cam Button.
1) Prevents the hardened Billet Cam Timing Gear from rubbing into the Hardened Cam retaining Plate. One part always has to be sacrificial, 2 hardened surfaces at significant RPM’s spells trouble, heat, warpage, worse..
2) Prevents the Cam from “walking” forward or backwards.
3) Maintains proper Timing Gear/Chain alignment for longevity.
The bushing installs on the Timing Gear, note one side of the Thrust washer has a larger chamfer on its I.D. to clear the Gears radius ground in where it sits.
Washers are generally too thick, measure the area where the Washer sits on the Gear, and the thickness of the Washer. The remaining amount need be removed. If you were to install it now, gear on- bolted up- you would find the Cam won’t rotate.. needs to move smoothly.
If you had a Lathe with an internal Collet, even a Mill- that’s great- most do not...
Decent Dial Calipers can measure +/-0.005, You are fine doing it with these.
1) You can also measure the step in the Gear with Calipers, using the end opposite the Dial for Depth.
2) Use Clay, apply it 360 Degrees around the Bushing step where the Washer fits, apply about 1/4” thick.
Bolt Gear to Cam tight, carefully remove- measure Clay thickness.
3) Get in there with feeler gauges- Cam Sprocket tight- keep adding until it’s snug.
Whatever number you come up with, remove material per the following:
So, you need to place a piece of sandpaper (180 Grit) on a relatively flat surface, thumb, 1st & 2nd Finger on Washer, medium pressure- move the washer in Circles around the Paper, to get a level surface (one side only).
Take the paper off & flick it to get rid of excess Bronze buildup. Use a small File to flat file a Chamfer in it, or sand the side with the smaller Chamfer.
Don’t want that radius in the Gear to make it appear too thick, when the radius is the issue- just be aware of that inner Radius.
As you get closer, remember you should be about 0.010 under max on the Washers thiskness. Doorsnt need be it’s the Tenths, or even a Couple thousandths. As close as you can get it- testing it frequently as you get close. Make sure it’s super clean, and a light coat of Oil on it when you’re testing it.
Keep measuring the Washer to ensure material is removed equally. Gentle pressure while twisting & rotating will yield excellent results. Once you’re almost there, cut back to 220-240 Grit.
Cover your Motor up, or do it in another room, not lots of Dust, but some tiny particles can become airborne.
Should take 30 Minutes- max., but it’s not a race. That’s it!
Once it’s in & the Cam spins freely, you’re good to go!
Totally fine, I really wasn't posting multiple replies because I was getting impatient either, haha! Just kept thinking of more things that might be helpful.Hey Zephyr! II apologize for not getting back to you earlier. I’d figured you needed a breather on the valvetrain & needed some time to think. What I’d have of done- appears I was correct in that assumption, anyway, lol.
BTW, wanted to mention, I’d missed an integral comment in an earlier text, below a Pic.you posted quite a while back in our conversation. That cleared up a concern lingering I had in mind, would not have made you happy, it makes more sense, now, happy it went the way it did.
Card the Cam, Billet Cam Gear, Thrust Washer & 9 gear
“What is this washer for? Why didn't my other timing set come with one?”
“Edit: nevermind, I guess. I found my answer. Info says brass thrust washer MUST be fitted. So, I'll fit it. And my thing about requiring a torrington thrust plate was wrong. I don't have the part number I thought I Had”
I’d explained how to mod the Thrust Washer, that’s how most do this without a Lathe, Mill. Usage of 0-6” Dial Calipers will work fine, easy to use, inexpensive if you need to buy, easily measuring dimensions , within the 0.010-0.015 in.tolerances required. Any questions, feel free to ask. Not a bad thing asking questions, the idiocy reserved for those who DON’T ask, without a clue & needlessly go it alone- mess it up right?
About Pedestals, they are more than resilient enough to handle your application, I’d run, or witnessed modified Motors running them with 150lb Spring seat pressures, 350-375 lb full lift opening pressures on both GT40/40P & even radically ported E7 Heads.
Certainly, Stud Mount Rockers are much stronger, easier to use (Especially with Stud Girdles)- Valve Covers 4” tall are needed, more often Solid Rollers, where Rocker to Stem adjustment is frequent. your App is for Cam is the Gt40 KR Grind as previously discussed, RRPM 1,800-5,800- correct?
Grade (8) 5/16-18 in. S.H.C.S., or at least new Bolts that come with Rockers are absolutely fine with your app. You will need shorter Pushrods now, Stock one’s should fit alright, but you must check Geometry, where Valve sweep on Stems occur.
Another product will keep Shorty Header heat down, Titanium based, Black Header Wrap will also help push the OE look, too, I’ll attach a Pic below..product and Look (Pic is a 532 CI BBC, but same results).
The checker Springs need only be tall enough to close the Valves, and get you to full lift, I’ve used them on GT40P’s before with Pedestals.
I’ll text more info. Just wanted to let you know I’m listening, and will be quick to respond now.
Hi, Summit Degree Kit should come with lightweight checking Springs you can use, aluminum Shims on the base- if needed. There’s no exact spec’s for “light” Spring tension, just very light extension Springs, pickup some at a local Hardware Store with your dimensions, it close, cut as required.Alright so we've got an update. I would not go so far as to say it spins FREELY with the washer installed, but I CAN turn it with the long 1/2" ratchet I've been using to do that. So, maybe we shave a little off.
To answer another question you had, yes I do have a valve spring compressor. I have not bought check springs yet. Summit's application info doesn't list any for the SBF, but they do have some. I don't know enough about different engines' valve springs to know for sure if they're all pretty much the same size or what, so I've been holding off buying some. I know Summit tends to carry things that DO fit other applications besides the ones they say they do (if they do at all). I've given them this feedback repeatedly. I sometimes end up buying elsewhere because I can't be sure with them. Looks like LMR has some though.
Also, to let you know, I do have well-matched intake parts, 70mm MAF, 65mm throttle body and EGR spacer. And my PCV is there and functioning, haha. EGR is too. My valve guides and retainers were new a couple years ago (very few miles since), and I have new spring retainers for the new beehive valve springs. I've also already bought a set of shims for the rocker arms.
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