TCP rack + Vario Camber setup in a '66 ?

[KiwiGT]

I intend installing the TCP power rack and pinion in my '66. My car has the Pro-Motorsports vario-camber setup installed, which uses an eccentric to adjust camber via the LCA. The eccentric is contained within a flat plate which is welded to the chassis area where the LCA bolts to the chassis.

The TCP rack assembly appears to use this use this bolt hole to locate the inner mounting bracket, and it is possible the vario camber welded plate which is sitting proud of the chassis will interfere with the TCP mounting bracket.

Any knowledge as to whether this will be a problem ?

 

[65fastbackresto]

This isn`t really related but....

I was gonna install the vario camber kit on my 65, which has opentracker components up front. John (at Opentracker) told me to only use the vario camber unit as a last resort if I had alignment problems.

I dont have a thourough understanding at all of how that stuff works, but he sure does, and he didnt like the idea at all (and he even sells that part himself).

If you ever deal with John, you`ll love it, he`ll quiz you pretty good on what you want, and then only sell you what you need, he`s a good guy.

Look in my signature, most of those parts came from opentracker.

 

[KiwiGT]

I have had the vario camber setup for a few years now and really like it because it enables prescise adjustment of camber by moving the LCA in or out, thus changing the camber. I am running quite big negative camber (- 1 3/4*) and +3* castor.

Between adjustable strut rods for castor and the vario camber setup, wheel alignments are quick and easy.

But that doesn't resolve my isue of whether the vario camber plates will interfere with the TCP mounting brackets - anybody ??

 

[Edbert]

I just don't know enough about those plates to help you, but the TCP rack bolts to the frame rails AND the LCA brackets. On 67-70s they REPLACE the LCA eccentric hardware altogether so I'm guessing that's a big negative answer to your question.

Here's a quote from the rack instructions I had handy...

9a) 1965 - 1966 - Bolt inner brackets (f) to the lower control arm mounting points using two
supplied bolts (z) 1/2” flat washers (n) and 1/2” nylock nuts (m) It may be necessary to use
the supplied round 1/4” thick spacers (u) in between the brackets and the body to align the
brackets with the rack and pinion tube. The mounting tabs on the inner brackets should
face outward. Do not tighten the bolts at this time, the brackets must be able to move.

9b) 1967 - 1970 - You must eliminate the stock eccentric bolts using the supplied eccentric
eliminator plates (vv) these plates allow the camber to be adjusted to 3 different positions.
Use 2 plates per side of the vehicle. Bolt inner control arm brackets (f) to lower control arm
mounting points using two supplied bolts (l), 1/2” flat washers (n), eccentric plates (vv), and
1/2” nylock nuts (m). The mounting tabs of the inner brackets must face inward. Do not
tighten the bolts at this time, the brackets must be able to move.

So reading the 65-66 bit makes it seem like there might be enough of a gap (0.25 inch) that you wont be screwed, I was surprised to read that you don't have to replace the eccentrics like I did.

 

[truck90278]

We have the TCP R&P and there is not a way to put the eccentrics on the lCA and use the TCP R&P

 

[66Runt]

Not a fan of the Vario kit either. Not only is there too much slop around the orignal hole of the under supported frame brackets, but to change camber you have to remove the lower bolt completely.
What genius designed that? Oh wait, I know... And yet another company sucking the dollars out of the unknowing.
(IMO) Follow John's advice, he's a sharp and honest guy.

 

[KiwiGT]

Not a fan of the Vario kit either. Not only is there too much slop around the orignal hole of the under supported frame brackets, but to change camber you have to remove the lower bolt completely.
What genius designed that? Oh wait, I know... And yet another company sucking the dollars out of the unknowing.
(IMO) Follow John's advice, he's a sharp and honest guy.

Actually there is no slop around the frame bracket holes, the Pro Motorsport welded reinforcing cage which holds the eccentric in place takes care of that. My car sees track day and hard street usage, and I have had zero issues in 3 years of running the Vario camber system.

Undoing the LCA bolt to change camber ? - I do all my own wheel alignments and the Vario Camber system is much easier than experimenting with how many shims to put in the UCA, and then having to readjust because it you guessed wrongly. Camber changes typically take me one just removal of the LCA bolt per side now that I am familiar with the setup, there is nothing difficult about taking the bolt out of the LCA, and I would happily buy the system again.

 

[69gmachine]

Actually there is no slop around the frame bracket holes, the Pro Motorsport welded reinforcing cage which holds the eccentric in place takes care of that. My car sees track day and hard street usage, and I have had zero issues in 3 years of running the Vario camber system.

Undoing the LCA bolt to change camber ? - I do all my own wheel alignments and the Vario Camber system is much easier than experimenting with how many shims to put in the UCA, and then having to readjust because it you guessed wrongly. Camber changes typically take me one just removal of the LCA bolt per side now that I am familiar with the setup, there is nothing difficult about taking the bolt out of the LCA, and I would happily buy the system again.

I've had the pro motorsports kit for about 7 years... no problems here either. Taking out a couple of bolts to make adjustments has never been that big of a deal to me. I can also make adjustments on my lower control arms for fine tuning adjustments. It looks like the only folks bashing them don't actually have them on their car.

 

[Edbert]

From what I'm reading here the two parts cannot co-exist. Sounds like you gotta choose between them or settle for a lesser R&P.

Best solution in my book would be new upper and lower arms and strutrods with coilovers like TCP offers (I'd go with GW personally), but unless you have $3K burning a hole in your wallet you're stuck with a hard choice.

 

[freddiecougar]

The TCP rack assembly appears to use this use this bolt hole to locate the inner mounting bracket, and it is possible the vario camber welded plate which is sitting proud of the chassis will interfere with the TCP mounting bracket.

Any knowledge as to whether this will be a problem ?[/QUOTE]

There should be no problem with this combination of parts. (I went next door and asked Lino, just to be sure)
Tim

 

[Jester67]

I just don't know enough about those plates to help you, but the TCP rack bolts to the frame rails AND the LCA brackets. On 67-70s they REPLACE the LCA eccentric hardware altogether so I'm guessing that's a big negative answer to your question.

Here's a quote from the rack instructions I had handy...


So reading the 65-66 bit makes it seem like there might be enough of a gap (0.25 inch) that you wont be screwed, I was surprised to read that you don't have to replace the eccentrics like I did.

Pre 67 did not have eccentrics the adjustment was made by shimming the UCA. In 67 then changed to the eccentrics and made the change at the mounting point of the LCA. The TCP as I understand it uses the eccentric removal kit that that uses plates with holes to align the car. If so then you could use the eccentric removal kit on the pre 67 car and still keep the bracket and desired function.

 

[truck90278]

The TCP rack assembly appears to use this use this bolt hole to locate the inner mounting bracket, and it is possible the vario camber welded plate which is sitting proud of the chassis will interfere with the TCP mounting bracket.

Any knowledge as to whether this will be a problem ?

There should be no problem with this combination of parts. (I went next door and asked Lino, just to be sure)
Tim[/QUOTE]

We have the TCP R&P in our 65. the brackets bolt directly (and solidly) to the backside of the LCA leaving no room for the eccentric. I would suggest anyone considering this combination to talk directly to Total Control Products.

 

[freddiecougar]

There should be no problem with this combination of parts. (I went next door and asked Lino, just to be sure)
Tim

We have the TCP R&P in our 65. the brackets bolt directly (and solidly) to the backside of the LCA leaving no room for the eccentric. I would suggest anyone considering this combination to talk directly to Total Control Products.[/QUOTE]

I am with Total Control Products, and I have Lino's word that this combination of parts will work!
Tim

 

[KiwiGT]

The TCP rack assembly appears to use this use this bolt hole to locate the inner mounting bracket, and it is possible the vario camber welded plate which is sitting proud of the chassis will interfere with the TCP mounting bracket.

Any knowledge as to whether this will be a problem ?

There should be no problem with this combination of parts. (I went next door and asked Lino, just to be sure)
Tim[/QUOTE]

Great - can you advise whether it is thought the '66 TCP brackets will fit, or will I need to use the '67 TCP eccentric compatible brackets ?

 

[Psydwaze]

The outer frame rail brackets have about a 1/4" slot that allow the rack to be shifted fore and aft. That allows for some variance in the thickness of the hardware on the backside of the lower control arm mount. The brackets are really designed to be used with a 1/4" thick washer or eccentric eliminator plate on the backside of the lower control arm bracket but the slots will allow the rack to bolt up tightly without one. Omitting the spacer is okay as long as the rack brackets still seat squarely against the frame rails. The rack's lower control arm brackets are secured to the rack tube with double-split collar clamps allowing the bolt's lateral position to be adjusted for camber.

The short answer: Yes, you can use the vario centric kit with the TCP rack. It just adds the camber adjustment feature of the '67 and later vehicles. We use the exact same rack and brackets for a '65-66 as we do for a '67-70. The inner brackets are just swapped from left to right to adjust to the longer '67 and later arms.

 

[Edbert]

Good post Psydwaze, that's what the rep from TCP should have said, particularly if he's here representing them.

 

[66Runt]

Actually there is no slop around the frame bracket holes, the Pro Motorsport welded reinforcing cage which holds the eccentric in place takes care of that. My car sees track day and hard street usage, and I have had zero issues in 3 years of running the Vario camber system.

Undoing the LCA bolt to change camber ? - I do all my own wheel alignments and the Vario Camber system is much easier than experimenting with how many shims to put in the UCA, and then having to readjust because it you guessed wrongly. Camber changes typically take me one just removal of the LCA bolt per side now that I am familiar with the setup, there is nothing difficult about taking the bolt out of the LCA, and I would happily buy the system again.

You are correct, and I am wrong. I was thinking of the '67-'68 kit which uses the stock weak ecentric. My sincere appologies to everyone here, and to Pro Motorsport.
I do prefer to change shims, and eliminate the ecentric on the '67-'68. I have not used the Vario Kit for the '66. Nor have I seen it (only the '67-'68 kit).
After the number of alignments I've done, "guessing" about shims is not a question. the correct tools, and it's a very quick and efficient process. Still not a fan of removing the lower control arm bolt without unloading the front end. and that means to do a correct alignment you have to re-settle the car. Quite frankly, that's a minor quibble. Where I can re-shimm in a matter of a couple of minutes per side, it might take an extra 5 to remove the lower bolt, resettle the car, and recheck.
When I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and again, my appologies.

Scott

 

[KiwiGT]

The outer frame rail brackets have about a 1/4" slot that allow the rack to be shifted fore and aft. That allows for some variance in the thickness of the hardware on the backside of the lower control arm mount. The brackets are really designed to be used with a 1/4" thick washer or eccentric eliminator plate on the backside of the lower control arm bracket but the slots will allow the rack to bolt up tightly without one. Omitting the spacer is okay as long as the rack brackets still seat squarely against the frame rails. The rack's lower control arm brackets are secured to the rack tube with double-split collar clamps allowing the bolt's lateral position to be adjusted for camber.

The short answer: Yes, you can use the vario centric kit with the TCP rack. It just adds the camber adjustment feature of the '67 and later vehicles. We use the exact same rack and brackets for a '65-66 as we do for a '67-70. The inner brackets are just swapped from left to right to adjust to the longer '67 and later arms.

Thanks for the advice on this Lino, much appreciated.

 

[KiwiGT]

You are correct, and I am wrong. I was thinking of the '67-'68 kit which uses the stock weak ecentric. My sincere appologies to everyone here, and to Pro Motorsport.
I do prefer to change shims, and eliminate the ecentric on the '67-'68. I have not used the Vario Kit for the '66. Nor have I seen it (only the '67-'68 kit).
After the number of alignments I've done, "guessing" about shims is not a question. the correct tools, and it's a very quick and efficient process. Still not a fan of removing the lower control arm bolt without unloading the front end. and that means to do a correct alignment you have to re-settle the car. Quite frankly, that's a minor quibble. Where I can re-shimm in a matter of a couple of minutes per side, it might take an extra 5 to remove the lower bolt, resettle the car, and recheck.
When I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and again, my appologies.

Scott

Thanks for your response - each to their own as far as the 'shim versus eccentric' debate goes I guess...