Who's H pipe to get?

[bhuff30]

I was planning to get an offroad H pipe to put on the otherwise factory system. Who's H pipe has the best fit? I don't want any leaks. Will a 2.5" pipe will still fit on the otherwise factory 2.25" system? I remember the answer being yes because they use ball joints. Seems like this is by far the biggest gain, with around 15-20hp for getting rid of the 6 cats.

Does a drop in K&N make any difference? I'm a little hesistant though, because a dirty K&N doesn't flow as well as a clean paper filter. My feeling is, that the factory system is sufficient unless you can say otherwise.

What are the other worth while bolt ons/cheap mods that can be done on a 97GT, 5sp? So far, it is stock to the paper filter.

The first and only time I was at the track with this car (probably 2 years ago), I ran a 14.6 on this otherwise factory car. Kinda made me wonder if it had a chip since my MPH was around 95 which is far above what the car should do, and it often pings on 87.

I don't intend to make this car fast, but I would like it to be a little quicker, get metter milage and sound meaner.

 

[SVT32VDOHC]

I would get a BBK or a Hedman. I used both before, they are just fine. Exhaust leaks depends on the installer.

 

[2000fordstanggt]

Does a drop in K&N make any difference? I'm a little hesistant though, because a dirty K&N doesn't flow as well as a clean paper filter. My feeling is, that the factory system is sufficient unless you can say otherwise.

i have actually heard that a dirty k&n actually flows better than clean. not that i would ever let mine stay dirty..but thats what ive heard.

 

[tank_567]

BBK o/R h-pipe

 

[scupking]

MRT O/R H

 

[Dusstbuster]

A 97GT first and foremost needs PI cams and a PI manifold. Without those you'd be getting almost NOTHING for your money spent on other mods IMO. I'm running an off road ProChamber (MAC) for my midpipe and I absolutely love it...no leaks or anything.

To give you an idea of how crappy our cars are, with the mods in my sig I only have 205HP to the wheels With your car you'd probably have 210-215ish.

 

[tank_567]

Hey now I installed all the mods I have w/o pi cams and intake I made 233rwhp/310rwtq on a dyno jet. My baseline was 189rwhp/261rwtq.I ran a 15.1 stock and when i installed my bbk h-pipe,my flowmasters with dumps and a drop in k&n I ran a 14.3. Now I'm in the mid-high 13 zone. Non-pi cars can be fast! Oh and dont ran anything higher than a 87 tune on your car. You have to remember the non-pi engines compression is only 9.0:1. I got an 87oct tune on my car and made 17 more hp at the wheels. With out the tune I made 216hp/298tq with all those mods.

 

[bhuff30]

Tank: That's pertty good, and I like that torque number. Surprises me quite a bit actaully.

Dusstbuster: you can actually install a PI intake on non PI heads? The ports all match up? I have no interest in swaping cams or heads so far as it is quite involved and expensive. I'd rather not open up the engine. I wonder how much of the gain is from the cam and how much from the intake though? Maybe it would be worth while to find a PI intake to bolt on if that's an option.

In daily driving, I kinda like the non-PI cam. I'll often do a 1-3-5, or 2-4-5 shift pattern to keep the rpms low. Not uncommon for me to be running 1000-1500rpm in normal driving, and I can get some good milage that way. I would often get 23-24mpg doing that (about 60% highway). I am currently driving an 00 V6 with low miles and an automatic. It's getting 20.5mpg in the same driving conditions.

Hey, when you guys get a tune, what are you tuning? Only AF ratios? If so, which direction do the AFs tend to go when adding airflow? The mass air meter should make up some of the difference, but do you still run lean before the tune?

I guess my modifications planned would be for more fun and better milage... So I'm thinking OR H pipe, drop in K&N and synthetic fluids for the tranny and rear end.

If I was able to do a 14.6 at 95 before, then maybe I can bump it to a a 14.3 at 98, and make 25mpg instead of 23. I bet synthetics make a huge difference in milage, especially in the winter when non-synthetics get very viscous.

 

[tank_567]

Get the bbk h-pipe and a drop in k&n you'll be very happy. I really think only very heavily modified cars should get tunes. You really will not see any power improvements with a stock engine and 93 octane. Dont get a new maf unless your making more than 400hp. Its pointless and you will see maybe 2hp. You can get a bbk O/R h-pipe for $170 bucks and a K&N filter for $45. After that you'll be seeing low 14s all day.

 

[Twista]

MRT doesnt make any midpipe for a 97 GT.



That said get a Mac H pipe.

 

[Dusstbuster]

Dusstbuster: you can actually install a PI intake on non PI heads? The ports all match up? I have no interest in swaping cams or heads so far as it is quite involved and expensive. I'd rather not open up the engine. I wonder how much of the gain is from the cam and how much from the intake though? Maybe it would be worth while to find a PI intake to bolt on if that's an option.

Easy answer is yes you can do it. In-depth answer is yes you can do it but the ports don't match up directly. You still gain ~15RWHP with the manifold and another ~15RWHP with the cams. The entire swap could be done in 12 hours with 2 people who know what they are doing and would cost about $400...You WILL NOT get that much power for your money with ANY other mod that doesn't involve nitrous/forced induction on our engines. The process isn't as bad as you might think, the only crappy part is the fact that there is no room to work in the engine bay.

The other plus for the manifold is that you can get a PI manifold w/ aluminum crossover so you don't have to worry about replacing it when your all plastic manifold decides to start leaking coolant. Not only do you get power, you get peace of mind. And since you'd already have the manifold off while replacing it you might as well spend the extra 2 hours to swap out the cams See my writeup in my sig for a little background on the swap if you want. I went into it with no knowledge of modding at all and am VERY happy I did it. I would never drive an NPI car again after doing the swap.

 

[tank_567]

You WILL NOT get that much power for your money with ANY other mod that doesn't involve nitrous/forced induction on our engines.

I gained 14rwhp with just my h-pipe and I installed it under 2 hours $170. Also I dyno'd my car after my cold air install and I gained another 7hp $165. CAI took less than an hour to install. h-pipe and coldair I when from 185 to 206hp. That only cost me $335 bucks. I got maybe 1hp from the underdrive pulleys and I lost some hp when installed my flowmasters. Your best mod and easiest to install is an O/R h-pipe.

 

[bhuff30]

Yeah, I quickly decided I don't want the PI intake.

I found a before and after dynosheet for the PI intake... It was a 10hp gain at high rpms, but lost about 15ft*lbs through the whole mid-range (2500-3500). In fact, the PI intake didn't show a gain until 4200rpm. Considering everytime you shift, you'll end up below 4200 (I'm usually around 3500-3800 after shifting), it isn't a good investment. I'd rather have the extra fun in the mid range than have to wring out the engine to high rpms.

I gained 14rwhp with just my h-pipe and I installed it under 2 hours $170. Also I dyno'd my car after my cold air install and I gained another 7hp $165. CAI took less than an hour to install. h-pipe and coldair I when from 185 to 206hp. That only cost me $335 bucks. I got maybe 1hp from the underdrive pulleys and I lost some hp when installed my flowmasters. Your best mod and easiest to install is an O/R h-pipe.

 

[Dusstbuster]

I gained 14rwhp with just my h-pipe and I installed it under 2 hours $170. Also I dyno'd my car after my cold air install and I gained another 7hp $165. CAI took less than an hour to install. h-pipe and coldair I when from 185 to 206hp. That only cost me $335 bucks. I got maybe 1hp from the underdrive pulleys and I lost some hp when installed my flowmasters. Your best mod and easiest to install is an O/R h-pipe.

You can get PI cams for $100...15HP
I'm also thinking your car is a freak because those numbers aren't standard by any means. Be happy that you have a car that loves mods, most don't.

Yeah, I quickly decided I don't want the PI intake.

I found a before and after dynosheet for the PI intake... It was a 10hp gain at high rpms, but lost about 15ft*lbs through the whole mid-range (2500-3500). In fact, the PI intake didn't show a gain until 4200rpm. Considering everytime you shift, you'll end up below 4200 (I'm usually around 3500-3800 after shifting), it isn't a good investment. I'd rather have the extra fun in the mid range than have to wring out the engine to high rpms.

Thats where our cars need the power is above 4000. If you race a NPI vs a PI stock/stock the NPI should pull off the line and then just die after that. It runs out of breath because of the crappy cams and crappy manifold...there isn't enough airflow. The intake also, like I said, is something you'll eventually have to change anyways because pretty much all NPI manifolds crack at some point and leak coolant. I'd be willing to bet decent money that if you took 2 cars that were EXACTLY the same in all aspects except one had a PI manifold and one didn't, the PI manifold car would be ahead the entire race.

A good place to find info as to what to do to our cars is www.sn95forums.com

 

[bhuff30]

Actaully, the intake has been replaced. It was done probably 3-4 years ago under warrenty even. The old intake had a plastic tube for the coolant, while the new one is aluminum. I expect it will hold up just fine.

Sorry, but I'm not spending money to shift the power band up at such a sacrafise to mid range torque. It's all about area under the torque curve. How much time do you really spend over 4200rpm? Think about it... every time you shift, you put the engine below this rpm! That's another 600-800 rpm you have to get through before you see a gain, even while running in the 1/4 mile. By the end of the quarter, the PI intake might have .5 mph (5hp AVERAGE gain in the opperating band).

Will the PI intake finish the quarter slightly faster? Yeah, probably. I really don't care about this... if I was so worried about being the fastest car, I sure as hell wouldn't be playing with the 4.6. I'm certainly not going to spend 400$ to gain .5mph in the quarter though.

It is peak torque at the wheels that makes a car fun to drive. This car is a daily driver, so peak torque will feel nice. If I do get into a race, it will likely be decided by 60-70mph, and if it isn't we are evenly enough matched that it doesn't matter. The 10hp gain from 4200-5200 are simply not enough to justify the the 15ft*lb loss from idle to 4200, at least not in a daily driver.

Thats where our cars need the power is above 4000. If you race a NPI vs a PI stock/stock the NPI should pull off the line and then just die after that. It runs out of breath because of the crappy cams and crappy manifold...there isn't enough airflow. The intake also, like I said, is something you'll eventually have to change anyways because pretty much all NPI manifolds crack at some point and leak coolant. I'd be willing to bet decent money that if you took 2 cars that were EXACTLY the same in all aspects except one had a PI manifold and one didn't, the PI manifold car would be ahead the entire race.

A good place to find info as to what to do to our cars is www.sn95forums.com

 

[Dusstbuster]

I have an auto...I don't pick where my car shifts

 

[tank_567]

You got to remember I have an 98 and a 5speed. The gt in 98 had 10 more hp than the 96-97. Also pi cams and intake are harder to install than the mods i listed. I had about the same hp with those mods and you have to remember I got those parts new. You can find used bbk h-pipes for like 50 bucks on stangnet and ebay all them time, same with the cold air too. I think if anyone does a pi swap they should do the whole thing. Way more power in the swap and all the parts work better together. OH and the best place to shift on a non pi is 4800 rpm. After that your wasting gas.

It is peak torque at the wheels that makes a car fun to drive. This car is a daily driver, so peak torque will feel nice. If I do get into a race, it will likely be decided by 60-70mph, and if it isn't we are evenly enough matched that it doesn't matter. The 10hp gain from 4200-5200 are simply not enough to justify the the 15ft*lb loss from idle to 4200, at least not in a daily driver.

I lost no tq with these mods

 

[bhuff30]

wow, so low a shift point. I was shifting at 5000. It's easy to identify on the tach and seems to work well for me. Pretty easy to see what the real gain of a PI intake would be when the ONLY gains are from 4200 to 5000.

You got to remember I have an 98 and a 5speed. The gt in 98 had 10 more hp than the 96-97. Also pi cams and intake are harder to install than the mods i listed. I had about the same hp with those mods and you have to remember I got those parts new. You can find used bbk h-pipes for like 50 bucks on stangnet and ebay all them time, same with the cold air too. I think if anyone does a pi swap they should do the whole thing. Way more power in the swap and all the parts work better together. OH and the best place to shift on a non pi is 4800 rpm. After that your wasting gas.



I lost no tq with these mods