LOL gonna put a 460 in my foxbody...

[SmockDoiley]

Gear banger you are still an idiot. He said the engine has head work, has a cam and an intake and its fresh from the machine shop. Sounds built enough to me for serious power.
Your T-5 argument is retarded too. That crap transmission wont hold on a stock 302, let alone a 351 or a 460, so anyway you look at it, horsepower means a new tranny. But in case you are wondering, a T-5 will bolt to a 460 and so will a Tremec. How do I know, oh yeah, I bought the clutch, pilot bearing, bellhousing, spacer plate and TKO600 and they all bolt up. Oh Im sorry, I was too busy reading Car Craft to mention that. Speaking of which, those guys dont know anything right? They just print engine articles with detailed parts breakdowns, dyno graphs, parts prices and where to source them because they are talking out their asses? But Im too retarded to do all that myself, but I guess I am because Im the only one on Corral.net and stangnet whos mated a 460 to a Tremec as far as I know. There are a lot of words Id love to say to you for your blatant ignorance and attitude. Tell you what, go ask the hundreds of people who have dropped a 460 into a fox body. They drop right in clown. You havent done the swap, but I guess you know anyways.
As for prices:
Intake--$190
headers--$220
cam--$150
performance heads--$50 plus $250 for machine work
Engines-- 2 460's and 2 C6's for $350.
Where the hell do you get off saying parts are more expensive and Im stupid. Yes, big block heads are expensive, but if you knew anything about the D0VE-C castings or the A429 head you'd know you dont need aftermarket heads to support over 1000 horses. Last I recall an intake for an EFI 302 cost around $500 compared to the $190 I paid for my carbed 460 intake. Go drive your mustang off a cliff with you in it if you even own one before you start questioning my knowledge of auto mechanics.
And as for the blower weight. Its an estimation and comparison between an iron headed 302 equipped with an intercooled supercharger and an aluminum headed 460. The weights are nearly identical. My headunit with just the main bracket, weighs 30 lbs. The intercooler weights 17. That isnt including the over 6 ft of 3 inch diameter steel plumbing, other brackets, power steering relocation bracket, oil lines, BOV, MSD BTM and the hardware to bolt it all up. An iron headed 302 with my supercharger setup weighs 520 lbs. A 460 with aluminum heads weighs 540. Wow, 20 lb difference. Even with iron heads its still only 120, and by relocating the battery to the rear and going to a fiberglass hood if you choose, your back to within a few lbs again. I didnt spend over 5 years working on jet engines in the Marine Corps, studying automotives my whole life and now 1 year away from finishing my mechanical engineering degree to be called out by a clown such as yourself. Do some homework before you open your mouth because at least I do. This kid is but a mere $100 C6 tranny, and $500 worth of swap parts away from having a 12 second mustang. Last I checked thats less than a set of Thumper ported heads for a complete drivetrain. Oh yeah, forgot the $75 to get the driveshaft shortened. Go buy a rice rocket loser since you dont know what you are talking about in here.

 

[Daggar]

Ya know Smock... I don't think anyone has much of a problem with what you do or do not know about anything. Nor do they probably care. It's your attitude and tendancy to kick, scream, rant, and flame like a lunatic at those folks who offer oppinions that differ from your own that folks have a problem with. To come out of left field and start a post with something like "I love it when folks open their mouths about something they know nothing about" is inflamitory and unnecessary in ANY environment and CERTAINLY in an environment like Stangnet where folks have in fact done and participated in a host of Mustang and engine related projects who may or may not have seen or had successes or failures that you have not.

 

[SmockDoiley]

Giddyup, your wrong. With a torker II intake, it fits under the stock hood.
Yount, though you are usually right. Your weights are off. Its 640 for the 460 with iron heads then take off approx. 80 lbs for the heads and like I said, an iron headed 302 with an intercooled supercharger comes in around 520. As you can see, the weighs are nearly identical and will vary between setups. In any case, who ever bitched at the guy who put a 454 in his 32 roadster. I never hear one complaint when someone mentions a Hemi in a hot rod. Hardly anyone on here ever talks about the twisty corners when they mention their mustang but all of a sudden you mention a 460 and everyone starts bitching that it wont corner. When was the last time any of you ran through a chicane? And when was the last time any of you did it in a 460 to where you can sit here and tell us how horrible they corner. Hell, the idea of putting a huge engine in a small car has been going in Hot Rod for how many years now, and just now we are bitching. For race car performance and engine building purposes, its not cheap. But in the means of getting a running engine, installing an intake and cam, its really cheap. I got my block and good heads for $100, and though they were good I decided to take them into the shop. I got the heads resurfaced, got a valve job, installed Erson springs and then had the rods reconditioned with ARP bolts, got it all balanced, cleaned and checked. Thats heads, block, and rebuild with performance parts for under $1000. I could have ran them untouched like they were but Im anal about that stuff. In any case, how is $1000 for my fully rebuilt long block expensive? Or $50 in his case. Aside from the nickel and dime parts, all you need are mounts, headers and pan. The headers you dont even need since the exhaust manifolds flow fine to run 12s. The pan needed is just a truck 460 pan which will cost you $20 at a yard. Mounts are $50 more than a set of new mounts for a 302. You can argue all you want, but Im doing it all right now and I know plenty of guys who are doing so I know what it involves and how much everything costs. It fits in the engine bay and under a stock hood if you know what you are doing. And if you want to do it too, Ill be more than happy to help. What I dont need is some goon on here questioning what I know. I'm actually going about it the expensive way which involves new parts, machine work and so on but its still cheaper than the stroker 342 I just finished. I know guys that do this setup for under $300 and run 12s all day on pump gas. They weld together their own motor mounts fusing together a 302 and 460 mount. They dont touch the engine and use exhaust manifolds and get regular 2.5 inch small block H-pipes to mount to the manifolds. This isnt news but it shows how all this can be cheap. Nothing in Hot Rodding is expensive unless you let it be expensive.

 

[SmockDoiley]

Furthermore, dont tell me I dont know how to do my homework, that Im unoriginal, or that I dont know what Im talking about. Who here has a blowthrough stroker setup? Anyone? No one? How about just a blowthrough setup? Oh yeah, I guess just me. Anyone here build a Clevor? Oh yeah, I have. Not bashing the 302 or 351, but if thats all you people have built and worked with then you have no right talking about the strange and original. I give Young some credit because he put his 302 in a Volvo. Anybody on this planet can put a set of heads on a 302. Its a common engine and there are 50 million boobs on the net who can tell you how to do it. Getting help building a blowthrough carb, installing 4V Cleveland heads on a 408 Windsor stroker, mating a TKO600 to a 460 or installing the 460 into your 85 Mustang is a totally different story. I couldnt get any help with that stuff because all people know how to do on here is install intakes and shifters. So go take your criticism elsewhere because it aint helping anything.

 

[SmockDoiley]

Daggar, I dont mind opinions, but when a kid is trying to do something and the first 4 posts are smart ass BS about not doing it, or that it cant be done from people who havent done it, then I get pissed. Personally I dont care if I piss anyone off with what I say. I came here to help people because I see a lot of BS floating around on this site, and Mustang guys have attitudes and they hate to be told they are wrong. You can tell me Im wrong and either your right and I will confirm it and apologize or your wrong and I will let you know. But being that you've been a member here for less than 2 months I dont even see how you know my entire history with stangnet.

 

[Ray III]

while smockdoiley is being highly insocial... he's still right. Kid's going to piss away a LOT more money building a small block just to make people feel better about it.

 

[Ray III]

Daggar, I dont mind opinions, but when a kid is trying to do something and the first 4 posts are smart ass BS about not doing it, or that it cant be done from people who havent done it, then I get pissed. Personally I dont care if I piss anyone off with what I say. I came here to help people because I see a lot of BS floating around on this site, and Mustang guys have attitudes and they hate to be told they are wrong. You can tell me Im wrong and either your right and I will confirm it and apologize or your wrong and I will let you know. But being that you've been a member here for less than 2 months I dont even see how you know my entire history with stangnet.

Look ******* you're beginning to piss off even people who agree with you. Obviously you didn't pay attnetion when I said I WAS NOT BEING A NAY SAYER.

I think we're done with this thread.

 

[408stroker5.0]

This thread has been nothing but one big argument....I see SmockDoiley's point, but no need to express your anger like the above, there are calmer way's to do so. Everybody has there own opinion's and idea's, and some people are smarter then other's.....DEAL with it.

Shon

 

[Daggar]

Daggar, I dont mind opinions, but when a kid is trying to do something and the first 4 posts are smart ass BS about not doing it, or that it cant be done from people who havent done it, then I get pissed. Personally I dont care if I piss anyone off with what I say. I came here to help people because I see a lot of BS floating around on this site, and Mustang guys have attitudes and they hate to be told they are wrong. You can tell me Im wrong and either your right and I will confirm it and apologize or your wrong and I will let you know. But being that you've been a member here for less than 2 months I dont even see how you know my entire history with stangnet.

My suggestion would then be to put what you know out there (since that's what we're all here for) and leave out the personal attacks. My being a member of forum for 2 months has little to do with how someone goes about belittling others in a thread that specifically asks for the opinions of others. Disagreeing with someone seems like the perfect opportunity to put out there what you know so that the individual who's asked the question might come away with knowing a bit more about the options for the project he or she is working on. State what you know and back it up with what you've done or learned. In the end it should be pretty obvious to the asker which options and opinions would suit that project best. And often... I've come away from threads where something was misstated or even completely wrong and either learned from it or learned (through research) why it was wrong at the same time taking bits and pieces of what WAS right with that post and using that along with other information to get what I needed.

As to the original thread topic. I've never considered putting a big block into my own Stang. Would probably never do it (lack of desire). I've seen it done before and had a hand in installing a 429 into a Fox while I was living in Delaware. In that particular case I'd be putting mildly if I said it was a pain in the arse (and that's just the part I had involvement with). But anyway, that was the reason I initially came into this thread. I wanted to see what other folks had done to make it work and also to see if it were actually worth the effort. No matter how you slice it, it seems to me to be one hell of a large task... gives me visions of building a complete drivetrain then dropping a car in over the top of it. hehe

 

[bluevenom867]

Ok for the real question again I think the big block is the better idea.If SmockDoiley got his wieghts right, than a 302 wieghs about 450lbs and a big block wieghs about 650lbs.200lbs differance,if you have more torque to overcome the differance you'll go faster.Heck it would be sweet to have a 5speed or 6speed on a big block.
3rd gear, 30mph, downshift into 2nd, hit the gas and..
eeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrkkk..rolling burn-out that is so bad that it will leave rubber on the car you just smoked !

 

[bluevenom867]

Any egnine is hard to put in when your replacing everything.Even a 302 or 351.

 

[giddyup306]

Giddyup, your wrong. With a torker II intake, it fits under the stock hood.

How is that? Here is my exact quote.




I do beleve you will need at lease a 2" cowl for the BB to fit.


I never said you WOULD need a cowl to clear the engine. Dude grow up how old are you 12?


FWIW Yes I have built a Clevor.

 

[bluevenom867]

I come from a big block family. My dad and his friend thats all they run. I have an FE390 .030 over for my racecar, but for the street a small blosk is the way to go. My dad 77 mustnag has a 503 it goes high 8's. His two buddy has a 509, and the other a 540 there both in a dragster and go mid 7's and 7.0's with NOS. And right now we are helping him build a pinot with with a 528ci motor with 16:1 compression. This is going to be one bad ass car.

hese is my Falcon with a 390 bored to a 396

This is my dad car with a 503ci motor

This is one of his buddies car with a 540ci motor

I dont have pic of the other dragster or pinto yet.

There is a big differance between a +500cid motor and a 800cid one..
I hate gas dragsters though I think there cheating in bracket racing,heads up is cool though.

 

[ExplodingGopher]

Holy Sheet thats lots a posts lol. Tomarrow im gonna go back up there and take a really close look at the parts that are on it and im gonna pick it up next week. I think im goin for it if the motor checks out. Its gonna be frikin awesome. As for emissions, I live in Ohio but dont need E Check on my 5.0 cause i got collector's plates, so a 460 presents no problem for e check if ya dont get one lol. O and the car already has the fiberglass 2.5" cowl hood on it so i think clearance is ok.


As for the parts question....... ONCE AGAIN i work at a mustang supply place so i can get any, i repeat ANY parts for wholesale prices. Parts are not a problem. Im gettin a C6 tranny for it and a crap load of other things for the rest of the car.


If anyone needs a 351C motor with OEM parts on it, we have like 3 of them in a couple mustang mach 1's right now. We also deal with ford racing and other vendors so we can get performance parts for you guys for good prices. We're based out of Willoughby Ohio and called Northcoast Mustang Supply Company visit www.northcoastmustang.com

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Yawn!!!

Man…try to have a nice civil discussion and when someone can’t back up their reasoning, the name calling starts. You do realize Smock, that once someone starts that it’s usually a result of them loosing their grip on the argument. It really makes you look foolish, you should stop.
Although I really have better things to do with my time than to reply the your last 4-posts of blah, blah, blah. I don’t mind touching on a few key points.....

.....Most of your prices are out to lunch and I think anyone who’s actually built a hard running B/B will agree. Not only that, but you’ve mixed up the facts of the argument so badly that nobody knows what the original point was? First you say that you don’t need a big budget to go fast. So then you start comparing the cost of “BRAND NEW” small block parts to junkyard swap used parts. Not a very fair comparison, wouldn’t you agree?

You also compare the cost of a Carb'd B/B to an EFI S/B. You do realize that there are carb'd FOX bodied Mustangs to, don't you?

Then you state how all you need for a big block to “Equal” the weight of a blown small block is aluminum heads and intake…..but then that pretty much throws away your argument of using the D0VE head castings then, doesn’t it? You’ve got a good breathing set of heads, but the last time I checked all those were made of iron, not aluminum. You can't compare a fully dressed S/B to a stripped B/B and call it the same thing. Check your statistics again. I think you'll see that you've made an error.

And as for a T-5 or C-4 being shredded by a stroker SB??? Tell that to the guys running them now. Sure the T-5 isn’t Fords gift to durability, but at the very least it’s usable. And it doesn’t take much to make a C-4 survive behind a fire breathing small block. As for you stating that a T-5 will bolt right up to a 460…….I really don’t have to make an argument for this one. Now you’re not even trying.

I could go on, but you’ve done a better job of destroying your credibility than I ever could. This whole time you’ve made it out like I’m the Anti-big block guy and I’m not. I’m just putting a realistic spin on it. You make it sound as though it’s just a matter of duct taping a couple of parts together to make it work and it’s not. Ask anyone on this board who’s properly done it….it isn’t just a matter of tab “A” into slot “B”. There are so many supporting components involved that you haven’t even touched on that will kill someone working on any kind of budget.

Go ahead…..you can admit you overreacted and maybe you’re not the Big Block expert you claim. We won’t hold it against you.

ExplodingGopher….have fun with the swap. It will definitely be an experience aand a real pavement pounder!

 

[super302]

50 bucks is a hell of a deal, ill give you 100 for it

 

[SmockDoiley]

Im not being a dick. You said it needs at least a 2" cowl and so I followed with the fact that it doesnt need a hood at all. How is that being a 12 year old? The use of an RPM intake from Edelbrock or equivalent would require hood mods but it can be done with a stock intake or Torker II intake which I recommend because it supports almost the exact power band as the RPM but with a lower height. Good to see you've built a clevor. Arent they great engines. Unfortunately there are not enough people in this site with that ability and there is a lot of misinformation floating around.
As for Daggar, I am trying my best to get the information out, but it seems when I do I get some clown telling me Im stupid and wrong and that I must not know anything because I read Car Craft. I got pissed because I see this alot when 3 or 4 people jump right in with misinformed negative talk about how something cant be done. So of course Im going to jump down someone's throat. I think its funny Im the bad guy by setting the record straight, but the guy who says good luck hammering out your shock towers doesnt get any mention. Thats all we need is some hack telling people to beat the crap out of their engine bay when its not needed. I spouted off all the immediate info I had in my brain about what the swap takes. If the kid further asks for more info, I can give him websites, price figures, part numbers, tech advice and so on. Call me whatever you want, I stand by my word and my advice. A 460 with a Torker II intake, 750 V.S. Holley, Comp 280H cam, Erson valvespring kit, D0VE-C heads with cleaned up exhaust ports, stock pistons and swap headers will make 500 horses on pump gas. You dont even need to play with the block if you keep it below 6000 rpms. Too much power and rpms will require oil mods since the 429/460 blocks are similar to Clevelands in that regard. Even the new Ford crate engines recommend low rpms becuase they set the engines up with tight tolerances. You dont need aluminum heads like I said since factory valves and runners are larger then you'll find on even AFR 225's. The only real weakness to the heads are the humps in the exhaust port which a dremel will cure and the weak springs. As for the price of heads for a 460, they are a mere $300-500 more than a set of AFR's which you will remake when you buy your cheap carbed intake and fuel system. My carb and intake cost me around $450 for brand new stuff. Whats the going rate for a 302 EFI performance intake manifold, CAI, MAF, throttle body, injectors and pump, $1100-1300? When it comes to any project, cost is relative. There really is no argument to the 460 swap except for the knowledge and available time from the owner/builder. If he doesnt have the time or the know-how then he should stick with a 302.

 

[90NotchBack]

There is a big differance between a +500cid motor and a 800cid one..
I hate gas dragsters though I think there cheating in bracket racing,heads up is cool though.

Yea I know there is a big difference between a 500ci and 800ci but all I was saying you don't need all those cubes to go fast. Dragster are cheap to build and hall a$$. That one in the pic. The totally came out to about 60,000 now try to build a mid 7'second doorslammer and it will be way over 60'000. My dads motor in one of those dragsters went 7.55@179 and it's in the mid to high 8's in my dads car. So that's why people build dragsters. Why would you call them cheaters? **** I put them out all the time when I go over to Super Pro. I hook up the delay box and go get them. I go 11's and I race 7 and 8 second dragsters. They have to case you. But I love the footbrake class. I'm deadly on the tree and then get on the top end and pat on them.

 

[SmockDoiley]

I guess my real point and beef is all the negative vibe in this thread and others like it.
Kid wants to put a 460 in his car and tells of the cheap price it is, the goodies in the engine, and that he's getting it from an old friend who likes him.
Instead of atta-boys, hi-fives, and tech advice of what to do next, he gets the complete opposite. That swap will cost too much, 460's from junkyards are gutless turds and it will need machine work, have fun with the hammer on the engine bay, those engines weigh too much and you'd be better off getting the combo I have.
I have 3 problems with this attitude of responses. First, I dont think most people read the whole post. Most of the negative posts can be negated by the fact that he already said it had all speed parts and it was already rebuilt, and that he can get it for 50 bucks. Doesnt that info throw out the expense problem and the rebuilding problem. Read the post all the way through people.
Secondly, everybody here is a salesmen and it seems that a lot of people are always trying to push what they have on to others. Instead of learning from others and working together to reach a common goal, all I see is; " No way man, you should get AFR heads, its what I have and they rock on my combo." Comments like that dont help at all. They are a source of an opinion but when everybody says that about their speed parts too, nobody gets anywhere.
Lastly, it seems that the first thing out of people's mouths is the negative aspects of a project. I doubt the greats think like that. I would rather fail on a huge project, than set my goals low and success with a stock 302. Though I got the 302 running, Im still driving something uninspiring. You people need to try harder, keep positive and explore new things. Dont always keep down the beaten path. Just because your buddy has an AFR 302, doesnt mean you need to have one too. Projects arent impossible and I strongly believe that as long as you have the necessary tools, any project is doable by any member of Stangnet. Its all in the intestinal fortitude and the will to success. So lay off the negative vibes and look to the skies or in our cases, the roasted tires. Let me see more big blocks, 4 cyl turbos, clevors, destrokers, and carbed blowers!!

 

[Gearbanger 101]

What thread are you reading?

Fist off...the comment about the hammer Vs the strut tower was a joke…plain and simple. He was merely saying it was gonna be a tight fit.

Second….when Exploding Gopher originally posted it, it didn’t state it was built up with any sort of performance parts. He changed that afterwards because he forgot to mention it earlier.
Hence the little “Last edited by ExplodingGopher : Yesterday at 08:54 PM.” Under his post.

Third….Nobody said the Junkyard 460’s were “gutless turds” I said that most only came out of truck and Lincolns and Crown Victoria’s (which is true, is it not) and most only made about 210 or so horsepower and . And again….keep in mind that this was before he changed his original message to include the performance parts.

Fourth….Why are you getting so uptight about someone mentioning the engine weight? A 460 weighs considerably more than a 302 or even a 351and will seriously affect handling. There’s no conspiracy here….just facts.

We weren’t filling his head with negative comments. Just stated that it’s not a direct swap and will end up costing more money than most may think. You’re the only one who seems to be filled with negative comments about anything that doesn’t involve a big block?!?

Why is it that anyone who’s got an opinion that doesn’t shadow your own is plotting against you, or trying to fill his head with nonsense?

The Facts are….Yes it’s possible, yes it’s an involved project, yes it’s costly compared to a small block project and yes it unique compared to most mustangs. Also, yes it’s going to affect handling, yes it's got serious potential to be fast, yes it will kill your gas mileage and no we’re not trying to talk him out of it. Just provide him with all of the facts....not just the positives!